Discussion in 'Elections' started by DoyleG, Mar 25, 2011.
Only if you continue to fund our health care
Why didn't this party win?
Mastershake would love that party.
Iggy is speaking. Cue the funeral march.
Going for a play on AfterMASH and Bush. Too many election coverage beers I guess :shrug:
I am watching CSPAN2
Say hello to David Orchard Iggy - if you're lucky, you'll get to sign away the old Liberal brand for Jack's LibDem party.
I can't believe he didn't read off a pre-written speech or a teleprompter because I think this might have been his best speech/eulogy of the entire campaign. Sucks for him his best stuff has to come under the worst circumstances.
Go Green Party! they are going to get 1.
BQ down to 2 now. Frenchie dude about to speak. Wowsers.
Time for the revolution!
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm kinda curious. I know the last referendum for independence barely failed, but how does Quebec not have its own government from like way back? Why didn't Canada just let them split off a long time ago?
Justin Truedeau is dreamy.
Same reason Spain does not want to let go of Catalonia.
I always wonder what we would do if a state wanted to go independent, like Hawaii or Texas, maybe Maine. What would our federal government do?
I don't know. Maybe fight a civil war or something.
The independence movement in Quebec only dates from the 60s as a product of the Quiet Revolution. Prior to that Quebec was largely a Catholic underclass of French, ruled by a Anglo minority centred in Montreal - basically the result of the English defeating the French in 1759.
But even before that there was the "French vote",which certainly was a huge factor in Canadian politics before the 60s.
An earlier poster mentioned that this election makes the NDP a national party.This may turn out to be correct, but -
By aggressively courting the Union Nationale/Creditiste/Trudeau Liberals/Mulroney Conservatives/Bloc vote,Layton has committed himself to following their agenda of "special staus" within Canada.He is now on a tightrope between his new found allies and the historic base of the party (urbanists,unions,and farmers).
This story will be far more interesting going forward than the faceless corporate tool Stevie Harper forming a government of like-minded corporate drones.
The Liberals are going to need a new leader soon. They should look no further than Justin Trudeau, IMO. It's like they say in the music industry: when records ain't selling like they used to, break out the greatest hits!
Same sort of thing here. They gotta go back to thinking about what some of their greatest leaders like Laurier, Mackenzie King and (Pierre) Trudeau did that made them important historical figures. I don't know of a better way for them to say "We're Back" than to have one of their best speakers and someone with the Trudeau name be their leader.
Totally agree - I was speaking to the emergence of separatism, not the compromise between English and French that resulted in the formation of Canada out of the former British North America.
Layton has taken on the mantle of Mulroney and Trudeau - mostly because of a natural fit between the NDP and Bloc supporters as leftist social democrats as much as anything.
If he can forge a party capable of governing out of this caucus he may be able to capitalize on the ~60% of Canadian voters that voted for left of centre parties this time around - not unlike what Harper did with the right in the 90s and early 2000s.
Seperatism in Quebec emerged out of the growing fear of a more powerful Western section and fear of gradual demise of Francophone culture thanks to declining pure laine birth rate.
PQ are far more nationalist than socialist.
The Parti Quebecois makes sense provincially - but the Bloc Quebecois was merely a provincial rump party that didn't make as much sense federally.
Both were nationalist first and foremost, but also reflected the socialist nature of modern Quebec. The PQ, having governed provincially, was more centrist, whereas the BQ platform was much more left of centre as they never had a chance of governing.
With the Bloc collapse, the soft nationalist vote went primarily to the NDP for their social democratic platform, and to a much lesser extent to the Conservatives and Liberals.
Heck a NDP candidate won while spending a week campaigning from Las Vegas, so Layton's message definitely resonated in Quebec.
In Ontario the Liberal implosion made the Conservative majority possible - Conservatives were elected in Toronto for the first time since 1988, and reflected the recent election of Rob Ford on a tea party-esque platform as mayor.
The Bloc came from Mulroney supporters who were crushed when Meech lake collapsed.
Layton won them over by suggesting reopening the constitutional conversation.
Quebec's no more or less socialist than any province not named Alberta.
Actually they are, they are the only province with complete provincially funded day care, amongst other things. Their social programs are some of the most expensive in the country.
I've never said that the Bloc wasn't originally hived off from the PCs, but Mulroney's grand coalition was based on Alberta/Quebec axis, which was part of the reason it was unstable, and while Mulroney was definitely to left of Harper, that split was due to the failure of the Meech Lake accord not left-right squabbles.
The Bloc platform under Duceppe was left of their platforms under Bouchard, and was one of the reasons Duceppe, Dion, and Layton were talking coalition during the Harper proroguing fiasco.
Layton may have agreed to revisit the constitutional issues for Quebec, but without his NDP platform he doesn't resound this well in Quebec. If Harper had promised the same he'd've only make marginal gains, in fact they lost five seats especially several cabinet ministers, and historically they lost their chance at a majority in 2008 thanks to a couple million in insignificant and poorly timed cuts to Quebec arts programs that killed their chances there that election.
We're sort of arguing past each other.
I think we agree on the collapse of Meech lake splitting the Mulroney PC coalition.Of course ,shattered is more appropriate,as it broke into the Bloc,Reform,and the Tories.
You're putting way too much of an emphasis on economic ideology as opposed to nationalism in Quebec.
I agree on the ideological factor in the west.
Your point on Harper is instructive w/ reference to my point.Harper stayed true to his base and lost his chance to build a majority including Quebec.Layton will have to throw his English base under the bus and promise special considerations to Quebecers,or he'll lose that vote to a renewed Bloc or
-wait for it-
I'm not kidding-
some renewed form of the Liberal party who will pick up the Quebec flag as the sponsorship scandal (which really was only a scandal in English Canada) is forgiven.
Maybe they'll start by actually picking a Canadian to lead them this time.
How is the new Toronto government actually governing?Because if it's like the US Tea Party ,they only want the social welfare state dissolved for brown people.
2011 Canadian Election
Would a future coalition of opposition parties be feasible? They polled a collective 55% of the vote, but only 45% of seats, to the Conservatives 40% of the vote & 54% of seats.
Good news for her: She already lives in Ottawa!
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