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2012 FIFA Club World Cup: General In-Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by SwissGCZ, Nov 24, 2012.

Moderators: bungadiri, Caesar, comme, SwissGCZ
  1. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 1999
    Location:
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    [​IMG]

    Tournament Home on FIFA.com

    UEFA: Chelsea FC (England)
    CONMEBOL: SC Corinthians Paulista (Brazil)
    CONCACAF: CF Monterrey (Mexico)
    AFC: Ulsan Hyundai FC (South Korea)
    CAF: Al Ahly SC (Egypt)
    OFC: Auckland City FC (New Zealand)
    Host: Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC (Japan)

    [​IMG]
    Final Venue: International Stadium Yokohama

    Prize Money

    1. USD 5,000,000
    2. USD 4,000,000
    3. USD 2,500,000
    4. USD 2,000,000
    5. USD 1,500,000
    6. USD 1,000,000
    7. USD 500,000

    Total: 16.5 Million

    [​IMG]

    Tournament Winners & Statistics:

    Intercontinental Cup

    1960 Real Madrid (ESP)
    1961 Peñarol (URU)
    1962 Santos (BRA)
    1963 Santos (BRA)
    1964 Inter Milan (ITA)
    1965 Inter Milan (ITA)
    1966 Peñarol (URU)
    1967 Racing Club (ARG)
    1968 Estudiantes (ARG)
    1969 AC Milan (ITA)
    1970 Feyenoord (NED)
    1971 Nacional (URU)
    1972 Ajax Amsterdam (NED)
    1973 Independiente (ARG)
    1974 Atlético Madrid (ESP)
    1975 No competition
    1976 Bayern Munich (GER)
    1977 Boca Juniors (ARG)
    1978 No competition
    1979 Olimpia (PAR)

    Toyota Cup

    1980 Nacional (URU)
    1981 Flamengo (BRA)
    1982 Peñarol (URU)
    1983 Grêmio (BRA)
    1984 Independiente (ARG)
    1985 Juventus (ITA)
    1986 River Plate (ARG)
    1987 FC Porto (POR)
    1988 Nacional (URU)
    1989 AC Milan (ITA)
    1990 AC Milan (ITA)
    1991 Red Star Belgrade (SER)
    1992 São Paulo (BRA)
    1993 São Paulo (BRA)
    1994 Vélez Sarsfield (ARG)
    1995 Ajax Amsterdam (NED)
    1996 Juventus (ITA)
    1997 Borussia Dortmund (GER)
    1998 Real Madrid (ESP)
    1999 Manchester United (ENG)
    2000 Boca Juniors (ARG)
    2001 Bayern Munich (GER)
    2002 Real Madrid (ESP)
    2003 Boca Juniors (ARG)
    2004 FC Porto (POR)
    [Merger with Club World Cup]*

    Club World Cup

    2000 Corinthians (BRA)
    2001 No competition
    2002 No competition
    2003 No competition
    2004 No competition
    [Merger with Toyota Cup]*
    2005 São Paulo (BRA)
    2006 Internacional (BRA)
    2007 AC Milan (ITA)
    2008 Manchester United (ENG)
    2009 FC Barcelona (ESP)
    2010 Inter Milan (ITA)
    2011 FC Barcelona (ESP)
    2012 ???

    Clubs with Multiple Titles

    4 - AC Milan (ITA)
    3 - Boca Juniors (ARG)
    3 - Inter Milan (ITA)
    3 - Nacional (URU)
    3 - Peñarol (URU)
    3 - Real Madrid (ESP)
    3 - São Paulo (BRA)
    2 - Ajax Amsterdam (NED)
    2 - Bayern Munich (GER)
    2 - FC Barcelona (ESP)
    2 - FC Porto (POR)
    2 - Independiente (ARG)
    2 - Juventus (ITA)
    2 - Manchester United (ENG)
    2 - Santos (BRA)

    Titles by Association

    9 - Argentina
    9 - Brazil
    9 - Italy
    6 - Spain
    6 - Uruguay
    3 - Germany
    3 - Netherlands
    2 - England
    2 - Portugal
    1 - Paraguay
    1 - Serbia

    Titles by Confederation

    26 - UEFA
    25 - CONMEBOL

    Mod Note: General discussion on the tournament and format is welcome provided it's constructive and on-topic. Distracting posts will either be deleted or moved.
     
    magic journey repped this.


  2. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting. The only club who can truly look back on an era of domination in its confederation is Al Ahly (and to a lesser extent Auckland.)
     
  3. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

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    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    OFC: Auckland City FC
    [​IMG]

    CONCACAF: CF Monterrey
    [​IMG]

    UEFA: Chelsea FC
    [​IMG]

    CONMEBOL: SC Corinthians Paulista
    [​IMG]

    AFC: Ulsan Hyundai FC
    [​IMG]

    CAF: Al Ahly SC
    [​IMG]

    J-League: Sanfrecce Hiroshima FC
    [​IMG]
     
    magic journey repped this.
  4. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Here's hoping for a Monterrey vs Al Ahly final :) I really think its possible this time around.
     


  5. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    Nope.

    Corinthians!!!!
     
  6. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

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    And let's not forget, this will be the first FIFA tournament to feature goal-line technology.
     
  7. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    How are they doing before the tournament?

    OFC Champ - Auckland FC

    Second in their league at this point, after only 3 fixtures. They've lost a few players during the summer, but none fundamental. Ian Hogg was experienced in the CWC competition, but went to the Portland Timbers where he didn't manage to play a single game. Reportedly he's back with Auckland, but unlikely to play for now. Spoonley is a promising goalkeeper that has returned from its loan to Wellington. Pedro Garcia, a Spanish player from the second division in Belgium, has been acquired by the club to reinforce their midfield.

    Evaluation: about same as team that won the OFC Championship.


    CONCACAF Champ - CF Monterrey

    Eliminated by Tijuana in the QF of the Liga MX (Apertura 2012) play-offs, they have shown solid in the current CONCACAF Champions League: they won all games in their group and ended 12/+15, topping the group stage of the competition. They transferred and aging Luis Ernesto Perez to Guadalajara, but got Edgar Solis (another CM) from them as a loan. A defender, Alejandro Molina, is back from its loan at Tijuana, where he played quite well.

    Evaluation: slightly stronger than it was when it won the Champs League, less reliant on only one man ("Chupete" Suazo).


    UEFA Champ - Chelsea FC

    Currently 4th in the EPL, after a third of the season, they are struggling in the Champions League and may go out at the group stage. They recently lost their manager, and are under an interim one (Rafa Benitez). Fernando Torres is still only scoring at a rate of once every third game, and they have lost Essien to Real Madrid in the summer. Oscar, their big buy in summer, is doing a good job, though, as is Eden Hazard. Raul Meireles was also let go, and Chelsea lack some bite going forward at this point --more so without Drogba. Last Champs League was, indeed, Drogba's tournament, his effective glorious good-bye.

    Evaluation: weaker than it was when they won last Champions League. Sorting out the manager issues will do some benefit, but the team lacks the bite in counter it used to have.


    CONMEBOL Champ - SC Corinthians Paulista

    Currently 5th in the Brasilerao, with two fixtures left, they haven't shown the same bite they did last year at this point, when they ruled the table. As usual with South American teams that win the Libertadores or Sudamericana, they have lost many more players than they have acquired. Their defensive anchor, Leandro, is now with Roma. So is another CB used as a sub, Marquinhos. Willian Gomes, one of their main threats in attack, now is signed to Metalist Kharkov. They acquired Paolo Guerrero, the Peruvian star striker from last Copa America, from Hamburg (he has phobia to flying), but so far he has not proven a replacement equal to Willian.

    Evaluation: weaker than it was when they won the Copa Libertadores.


    AFC Champ - Ulsan Hyundai FC

    Currently 5h in the K-League, they have only three games left in their complex system (the league splits into Top and Bottom groups of 8 after their regular 30 game season). Ulsan has failed to win a single game at home during this second phase, losing to Jeonbuk rivals at home 1-3. Maranhao is back in the J-League, but he shouldn't be a big loss. They got Rafinha to replace him. In theory, Rafinha is a superior striker to Maranhao, as he's proven in the last rounds of the AFC Championship.

    Evaluation: same, since they just won. Their poor league performance can be blamed on having to focus on two tournaments at the same time, with a limited roster.


    CAF Champ - Al Ahly SC

    Al Ahly is a special case: they have no league going at this point, due to the political turmoil in Egypt. Of late, Al Ahly, the Club Supreme in Egypt (barely disputed by Zamalek), and arguably the strongest club in Africa since the 80s, has star strikers in Aboutrika and Geddo. A solid club, lack of preparation may hurt them, since they only had the CAF Champs League to play.

    Evaluation: same, since they just won.
     
  8. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

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    It would be a bit anticlimatic if Corinthians doesn't make the final. After all this year could be termed "South America's last stand" in regards to the all-time record. :D
     
  9. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
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    Honduras
    Corinthians' squad for the Club World Cup:

    Goleiros: Cássio, Julio Cesar e Danilo Fernandes
    Laterais: Alessandro, Fábio Santos e Guilherme Andrade
    Zagueiros: Chicão, Paulo André, Wallace, Anderson Polga e Felipe
    Volantes: Ralf, Paulinho, Guilherme* (ou Willian Arão) e Edenílson
    Meias: Douglas, Danilo e Giovanni
    Atacantes: Emerson, Paolo Guerrero, Jorge Henrique, Martinez e Romarinho

    FIFA says there is an issue with Guilherme Torres' documents, so Willian Arão might replace him.
     
  10. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

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    Auckland travels to Japan today and tomorrow Wednesday in two groups.

    Auckland City squad:
    1. Jacob SPOONLEY (GK)
    2. Simon ARMS
    3. Takuya IWATA
    4. Riki van STEEDEN
    5. Angel BERLANGA
    6. Jason HICKS
    7. James PRITCHETT
    8. Chris BALE
    9. Manel EXPOSITO
    10. Luis CORRALES
    11. Daniel KOPRIVCIC
    12. Tamati WILLIAMS (GK)
    13. Alex FENERIDIS
    14. Adam DICKINSON
    15. Ivan VICELICH
    16. Albert RIERA
    17. Pedro GARCIA
    18. Liam ANDERSON (GK)
    19. Daniel SARIC
    20. Emiliano TADE
    21. David BROWNE
    22. Andrew MILNE
     
  11. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

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  12. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

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    I'm also a bit surprised that they haven't decided to start inviting back the reigning champion.... not only would the amount of money they could bring in get cranked up by almost always having a second European power house in the tournament, but it would also give them an even 8 teams and allow them to set up a nice clean bracket.... that way you could justify adding a game for the UEFA and CONMEBOL champions as well... this also almost guarantees a big name team in the 3rd place match too.

    Things would be a lot more interesting if Barca was in the mix this year with the rest of these teams.


    Either way, definitely looking forward to the tournament again... here's to more upsets!
     
  13. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL Member+

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    That would be absolutely horrible. It's bad enough that they have a host berth.

    The purpose of the CWC is to bring together the world's continental champions. If Barca failed to win their continent, which they did, then they do not belong there. They were already eliminated by Chelsea. It would completely cheapen and degrade the competition if Barca were in the mix this year with the rest of these teams.

    What makes the CWC special is the path that these teams took. A strong domestic season to qualify for their CL, then winning their CL. A 2 year process. Inviting the defending champ goes 100% against what the CWC is about. So having Barca there this year would be a terrible idea.

    So it's no surprise that they've never invited the reigning champ. This tourney isn't about "inviting big names". It's about winning your continent.
     
    unclesox repped this.
  14. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

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    Corinthians were given a heroes send off as an estimated 15,000 supporters turned up at Guarulhos International Airport Monday evening to wish the team good luck on their maiden voyage at attempting to become world champions.

     
  15. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    you mean by almost always having a second south american team from argentina or brasil

    []__[]
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    I would agree, except that they already invite the domestic champions of Japan (who failed to win the AFC Champions League). :thumbsdown: So although I would prefer the tournament to have just 6 teams, if you're already inviting losers of continental championships it makes more sense to include the defending CWC champion than the league champion of the host country (which always seems to be the same country).

    Remember when the European Cup was for champions, they also invited the defending champion (not the 2nd-place team from the country that hosted the final).
     
  17. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

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    I wouldn’t be against the defending champion playing, but this might pose problems.

    If we were to apply the “returning champion eligibility clause” for 2013 onwards…
    1. Say Corinthians wins the 2012 Club World Cup AND the 2013 Libertadores. It’d qualify both as CONMEBOL’s representative AND the defending champion wins its continent again, then who takes the place of the “defending champion,” since Corinthians would qualify as Libertadores champion?
    2. What if the defending champion had a horribly embarrassing performance in the following continental tourney? Chelsea may not even qualify for the elimination rounds of the Champions’ League – they need to win their next game AND have Juventus lose to Shaktar Donetsk. And, had this rule been in place in 2007, Internacional would have been the “defending champion” – even as it was eliminated in the first round of that year’s Libertadores (which was won by Boca Juniors). Then let’s say Internacional had participated as “defending champion,” and faced either Milan or Boca in the final and won. Could it truly have deserved “World champion” status of 2007 given it didn’t even win its continent?

    Sure, push comes to shove, I’d rather have the defending champion over a host country team. That would mean practically ever year we’d have either 2 European or 2 South American teams.

    And to be frank, I still miss the old UEFA vs CONMEBOL format. Anything can happen in 90 minutes when a team from AFC or CONCACAF has nothing to lose and everything to win. Place Corinthians in Chelsea in a league tournament with Monterrey, Ulsan Hyundai, Al-Ahly, Auckland City, and Sanfrecce Hiroshima, and they’d finish double-digit points ahead. In one single match, the unthinkable can occur, as Internacional found out in 2010.

    In 2011, Kashiwa was at home, and fully adapted to the weather. Coached by a Brazilian, Nelsinho, Kashiwa made Santos work very hard. Too bad for the Japanese host teams that they have to play 3 times in six days. And to further prove how low the quality of the tournament is minus UEFA and CONMEBOL, Al-Ahly will be in this tournament for the fourth time in eight years. It played four matches and lost all.

    Put in one of the final four from either the Libertadores or the Champions’ League in Al-Ahly’s place. We’d possibly be talking about the equivalent of a “wild card” champion.
     
  18. SwissGCZ

    SwissGCZ Moderator Staff Member

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    The last time I checked UEFA has won five straight.
    Care to elaborate? Al Ahly finished third in 2006.
     
  19. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL Member+

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    Neither makes sense. Many fans cringe when they see a non-CL champion out there. I hoped they'd have scrapped the host berth by now, but unfortunately it looks permanent.

    How many rounds did it take to win the European Cup? The CWC is only 3 rounds. That's what makes it so ridiculous. At least in the regular World Cup, the host has to get past a group stage before the final 4 rounds.

    As Century's Best said, it would be ridiculous for Chelsea to already have a 2013 CWC ticket punched without having to play a single game in the UEFACL KO rounds. What gives the CWC its meaning and prestige is that you have to go through the cauldron that is the CL KO rounds. And win them.
     
  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL Member+

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  21. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

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    My mistake, they didn’t lose all matches – but they lost to Al-Ittihad in 2005, to Pachuca 4-2 and to Adelaide United (for fifth place) in 2008, and to Auckland City in 2009. They did lose four matches – out of their five games. Not exactly a record to be proud of, especially since only one of their opponents (Pachuca) wasn’t from Asia, Africa, or Oceania.

    But for Mazembe in 2010, it’s been Europe & South America since the inaugural edition in 2005. And after Mazembe, UEFA and CONMEBOL representatives will be doubly if not triply alert to avoid upsets. Santos was under some pressure in 2011, but they advanced to the final. Tite, Corinthians’ manager, is a very serious type – he will not allow his team to underestimate whoever it is his team faces – Sanfrecce, Auckland City, or … Al-Ahly.
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    It's probably around the same distance, but faster to fly east rather than west (prevailing winds). At least when the majority of your trip is in the northern hemisphere.
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  23. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    last time i checked argentina and brasil have won it 9times each more than any other country


    []__[]
     
  24. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

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    Its no more absurd than Chelsea having a spot in this years CL really... and whoever the team is will likely be better than a majority of teams in the tournament already..... besides, I'd reckon winning 3 games in the Club world cup is still tougher than winning 5 games in the OFC Champions League. (what Auckland City had to do this year)

    and talking about the prestige of the CWC? I don't think there is much excitement or interest outside of the hardcore fans.... adding another strong team brings more eyeballs and increases the value of the tournament to the general person. (rightly or wrongly) And quite frankly I think at the very least it makes the title of "world champion" a tad more justified.... I'd rather the "World Champ" win 3 games than the 2 games they currently are required to win. (against tougher competition no less)

    You brought up group stages... would you find it more justifiable if there were 2 groups of 4 before the final?
     
  25. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

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    Unfortunately these posts indicate there is no consensus as to what's fair in terms of participation, and again, save for Mazembe 2010, I don't think we'll see many upsets - although one never knows given it's only 90 minutes for these otherwise "underdog" teams to give it their all against UEFA or CONMEBOL teams who, after all, are comprised by fallible human beings who may simply have an off day.

    If Sanfrecce, Al-Ahly, Hyundai Ulsan, or Auckland participated in either the Barclays Premier League or the Campeonato Brasileiro, I would not expect any of them to qualify for the Champions' League or the Copa Libertadores. I do not mean to be condescending or harsh, but to finish in the top four in the leagues of either England or Brazil is extremely tough. Could these teams, even with foreigners, make it?

    I left out Monterrey because Mexican teams are usually quite good, and some have been quite competitive in the Copa Libertadores - one time, Chivas Guadalajara humiliated Boca Juniors 4-0. But their strength in domestic and continental tournaments hasn't always translated into CWC success - 1 3rd place finish, 3 4th place finishes.

    If Corinthians makes it and Chelsea somehow is beaten before the final, I'll watch the game - because whoever it is that defeats Chelsea will sweat blood to defeat Corinthians. If Corinthians fails and Chelsea advances, I won't watch it. As much as I despise Corinthians, I would rather see a Brazilian team emerge victorious as opposed to an Africa or Asian one.
     
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