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2012 Hot seat or getting warm seat

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Cliveworshipper, Apr 11, 2012.

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  1. oneofnine

    oneofnine Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    ha-to say that the system is closed to gaining experience is ridiculous. Experience can be gained in a variety of fashions. This is proven by coaches who start off at lower levels or in different areas (ODP for example) and actually prove themselves by being successful. There is no doubt that opportunities to gain experience are available for both genders. Being qualified to coach a D1 program does not mean you need to have been a head coach at a D1 program. I would rather see a successful HC from a D2 school gain a D1 HC position then a D1 coach who has a proven record of mediocrity - regardless of gender.
     


  2. SCUFANTASTIC

    SCUFANTASTIC Member

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    This is more naive than moronic, but it is at the heart of your argument and renders it essentially misogynistic.

    Find me somewhere an administration that says that they had a better candidate but decided to go with the lesser applicant. Can't be done, doesn't exist. Coaches are selected on a variety of factors, some of which you might weight differently than the selection committee, but they always select the candidate they like best who they can afford and who will accept the offer. You seem to feel that a computer could make the choice. But I feel your computer would adhere to the status quo and the PAC 12 wouldn't even have the paltry 16% women's soccer coaches they currently have, and you would proclaim that fair.

    And you'd be wrong. And your argument has been wrong throughout history.
     
  3. oneofnine

    oneofnine Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    hilarious! Who is naive now? Apparently a person with very little real world experience in this area. Oh well - good luck with the name calling and your life inside the vacuum. Perhaps we can forge ahead and get back to speculating on job openings, who will fill them & how many men & women have been discriminated during the process.
     
  4. midwestfan

    midwestfan Member

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    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    It's a matter of time before we start to get more qualified female candidates for coaching positions. I have three daughters that haved played and love soccer. None of them is remotely interested in coaching, and don't choose to watch much soccer on t.v. A very good friend of mines sons play and already help out coaching younger teams and know everything that's going on in the pro world. I use the example to show that men are still far more interested than women in following and participating in coaching. When I started coaching, almost 30 years ago there were no female coaches (I have always coached girls), but compare the numbers to then and there are far more women coaching now. I'm sure when my grandkids are playing, and I'm sure they will, there will be even more women coaching, and I hope at a high level and I hope successfully.

    Any word on the IU job? I'd like to see that program turn around.
     


  5. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

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    Everton FC
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    Greg Murphy and Joe Malia put in for the Oregon position. Both WAY more experienced and qualified than Mertz. But they didn't get it. Oregon chose to go with a way lesser candidate, and placed more emphasis on anatomy than actual credentials. They can live with that.
     
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    Dec 3, 2006

    Evidence they did that? Links?
     
  7. midwestfan

    midwestfan Member

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    Still no word on their website as to who has been selected as the AC at Cincy, although Nate Lie is listed as the attending coach this week at the ECNL event for Cincy.

    Typically will other spots open up over the off season or is there a specific period when it gets hot other than right after the fall season is over?
     
  8. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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    At the risk of pouring cold water on all this, there are really two rather pointless (IMHO) discussions going on here - both recur quarterly or so on this board to no avail, so . . .

    1. About the Oregon job, clearly there are folks who don't feel Mertz was the best possible choice. Like most things about coaching you can make a case for your point of view, and also if we wait a bit, we'll find out who is right and who is dead (about 1:30 on the clip below):


    2. In terms of the hiring of D1 head coaches in women's soccer more generally a quick search will get you all you need to know of most opinions in terms of discrimination, etc. in all its totally pointless glory (like the people who do the hiring read BS). One of the better iterations of this discussion is here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/the-great-debate-women-and-college-coaching.1860885/ but you can certainly link to several others depending on your desires on the heat vs. light scale.

    3. I suggest keeping this thread for news & info, rather than redundant arguments and vitriol. When the word misogynist gets thrown around, I want to be the one doing the throwing :D
     
  9. SCUFANTASTIC

    SCUFANTASTIC Member

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    Impeccable logic which proves your point!

    Based upon your logic, if we examine the 3 most recent Bay Area professional coach hires, we will surely see that they went with the most experienced candidate. Golden State Warriors hired Mark Jackson, no coaching experience of any sort. Oakland Raiders hired Dennis Allen, no head coaching experience. 49ers hired Jim Harbaugh, no pro head coaching experience. #%+=^%#€!!! Every Bay Area pro sports team is discriminating against experienced coaches!!!

    Soccertrustee, please explain how this could possibly occur, because according to your (moronic) logic, teams never veer from the most experienced coach.
     
  10. SCUFANTASTIC

    SCUFANTASTIC Member

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    In that case, don't adopt other's misogynist arguments as your own, would be my suggestion.
     
  11. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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    I haven't made any argument on this thread, you just keep throwing that word around like you're trying to denude it of meaning. I assume that strategy has some real life payoff for you, but here it makes you look like a schmuck. And that's coming from someone who, generally, agrees with you.
     
  12. SCUFANTASTIC

    SCUFANTASTIC Member

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    This thread was going off in a very wrong-headed direction. If objecting to that makes me a schmuck, whatever...
     
  13. Collegewhispers

    Collegewhispers Member

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    1) Women applying for men's jobs: sadly this does seem misogynistic but if you were to ask female college athletes whether or not they would rather play for a male or female coach it would perhaps be a fairly even ratio. However ask male college athletes the same question and I'm sure the answer would be far different. Unfortunate but still a part of the way the world works these days.

    2) Jobs: Yes women who are not as qualified as some men get jobs, and yes it can be frustrating as a male. I'm sure a lot of us have seen this first hand. I am in firm agreement that the best person for the job should get the position regardless of gender, and also think Oregon in particular have made a poor decision based on a gender, but once again that is simply the way college athletics seem to work these days. Whether or not we agree with this is a mute point it simply is what happens.

    At this point there are most probably more qualified (from a numbers perspective) male coaches than female simply because for a longer period of time male coaches have been in the college game. However as the volume of female coaches continues to grow we will get more and more quality women to lead college programs and that is hopefully the future of the game. But for the time being it appears a certain percentage of hires will be based upon gender not upon merit and the same topic will be repeated time and time again. I certainly don't agree with the hiring of female coaches simply for being female but we shoul not begrudge them this opportunity either. It is not their fault they have been hired for a position they wanted.
     
  14. SCUFANTASTIC

    SCUFANTASTIC Member

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    And part of the reason the world still works this way is because when someone says it should work differently people think they are schmucks.

    Another reason the world still works this way is because people identify as "discrimination" the hiring of a female coach when, in fact, females are WAY underrepresented in women's college soccer. As I stated in a previous post with examples, "unqualified" coaches are hired all the time, but men only get frustrated (and whiny) when "unqualified" female coaches are hired.

    On page 20 of this thread is a list of 8 coaches hired so far this year. 7 of 8 are male. If anyone on this thread wants to assert that hires are based on gender, how can you make any reality-based argument other than males are preferred?
     
  15. oneofnine

    oneofnine Member

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    Nov 21, 2011
    it isn't necessarily the number hired, it is WHO is hired & their qualifications as compared to the rest of the applicant pool, regardless of gender. A prime example was the hiring of the UNC-Greensboro coach, a person who had very little collegiate experience. There were definitely more qualified applicants in the pool and people generally at the time thought it was a wrong hire & admin made a stupid move. Was it discriminatory? If the candidate was hired primarily because of gender and/or race and in spite of a clearly inferior resume, then yes. Oh yeah - the hire was a male.......so people can and do complain about the process but it doesn't make them a misogynist
     
  16. TXstar12

    TXstar12 Member

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    Here is your odd male hire of the year. He was a volunteer at USA, and has sat out of college soccer for two years. Now, this one is hard to understand IMHO.
    http://www.southernmiss.com/sports/w-soccer/spec-rel/122612aaa.html
    I also know more qualified males and Females applied for this job. USM you get an 'F' for this hire. He will do worse than any other coach that has been at USM. CUSA coaches everywhere are the only ones happy about this job.:thumbsup:
     
  17. DemitriMaximoffX

    DemitriMaximoffX Member

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    Aug 19, 2006
    No, really, it isn't. Southern Miss' athletic department is skint thanks to numerous stupid hires in other sports, and they can't afford much in the way of a more reputable coach.
     
  18. Mark Johnson

    Mark Johnson Member

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    My two cents as I have seen Mertz coach....should have stayed with Tara...
     
  19. Why Not!

    Why Not! Member

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    Speaking of "cents" & "sense"......

    Salary has ot come into play in most all of these decisions. Admins are formulating Salary Ranges, then evaluate resumes based on those ranges....it's not necessarily true that qualified coaches are being overlooked...it's just that they may be too expense! The BCS schools have no excuse (wasn't the Miss State salary range published at $90-100k?).....anyways, I hear more about coaches turning down (or possibly never applying) because the money is not there...thoughts?
     
  20. cali.soccer

    cali.soccer Member

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    Aug 25, 2007
    Well if i knew Southern Miss was looking for a club coach, I would have put in for it. I will aslo state I knew a number of more qualified assistants, Head Coaches (At different levels) that put in for it and didnt even get a sniff? Well what do we really know about what goes on in the process?

    Well its 2013, and I thought there would be more turn overs this year? I really expected there to be more turn over out here on the west coast (USC, Fulerton, Gonzaga, and Nevada Reno) to mention a few. I hear Eastern Kentucky will hire Chris Swift (From Cali)? So will there be anymore openings after the return of the holiday?

    Lets get back to topic. Any openings still to come?
     
  21. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    Dec 3, 2006

    In Oregon the coaches are public employees and their salaries are published.

    Tara Erickson received slightly over 100K in salary and 40K in benefits during her tenure.

    No word on whether Metz was offered that much, but we will know next year.

    http://cascadepolicy.org/govdocs/state/universities/

    Actually reports are quarterly, so if you hunt, you can find out this Spring.
     
  22. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

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    May 5, 2007
    Salary is of course important but you'd think anyone inquiring would find out what the range is before applying or at least interviewing. The committee and/or HR folks can ask for "salary requirements" as well to filter out some candidates. There is still some back and forth over final numbers in the contract but hopefully not any big surprises.
    Bottom line - you NEVER know what's going on with these committees. Assuming they are all fair and objective is a bad assumption, especially the privates, who are accountable only to an administrator and ultimately some part-time trustees.
    Example- a private d1 school committee once began their search and brought in 3 candidates and had them meet the players and even run a Spring training session. Just as they were about to pick one, the President's office "delivered" their new coach by sending someone over in person to inform the committee. It was a part-time d3 coach with a losing record. His dad had been a big donor to the school. So, make a big donation, get a building named after you, and get everyone in your family a job! Love this country....
     
  23. SpencerReid

    SpencerReid New Member

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  24. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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  25. SpencerReid

    SpencerReid New Member

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    Wonder if we will hear Khettry's name pop up with a new position this week. Seems odd to leave unless something is lined up or it was forced. I think St. Bonaventure will have a tough time finding a coach as qualified as Khettry. Definitely going to be a tough place to recruit a coach with much experience.

    Anyone have any insight?
     
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