2014 WC Brasil - CONCACAF WCQ opponents watch [all R's]

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TimB4Last, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    So we were going to judge things based on friendlies? We have nothing on Mexico until after the hexangonal round at the earliest, assuming both make it. Even if brazil smashed Mexico 5-0 and we reversed that same score line against brazil, it'd still mean nothing between the two teams.

    Heck on the balance of play I think we played better against brazil than Mexico but that and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.


  2. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Personally, I don't think Mexico played all that well either as the first goal was a freak and the second just a needlessly stupid play from Juan. Brazil dominated the first half and the offside goal wasn't offside and Pato should have scored. From a Brazil standpoint, the most worrying thing was how Brazil folded in the second half doing nothing other than Pato's blow touch (which he should have scored).

    With respect to the US versus Mexico, I don't think the scores tell you too much about this rivalry. BUT, Mexico is clearly a billion times better defensively and that alone makes them significantly better than the US overall until further notice.
  3. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm not a ref, but Chicharito appears not to have been in an offside position when the ball was played. To have been in an offside position, he would have needed to be closer to the end line than both Brazilian defenders (other than the keeper) and the ball, and it's certainly not clear to me that he was closer to the end line than any of the above, especially not the ball. Having not been in an offside position, it is then certainly not an infraction for him to attempt to head the ball.
  4. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

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    when you compare these 2 games you have to realize that Mexico had Bra down the whole time. Thus Brazil couldnt just hang back and relax in the 2nd half like they did vs USA, thus making USA look good.

    I think most of you got it, defense is what made the difference in these 2 games. Mexico was just "nastier"


  5. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Exactly wrong. Brazil was all over Mexico in the first half. Brazil did score first and that goal should never have been called back for offsides. In the first half, Mexico looked OK at times on possession and the break, but Brazil controlled possession with Mexico defending strongly. Mexico's first goal was a mishit cross (badly mishit) and its second just a bit of absolute stupidity. Brazil was superior in the first half until they seemed to quit after the second goal.

    The game situations actually made Mexico look good, not the US. With the lead, Mexico could force Brazil to dictate things and wait patiently for them. The US had to force things as it was losing, opening itself up to the counter. The most impressive aspect of the USMNT's performance was that it was able to create good chances when Brazil was sitting back and focusing on defending. The exact opposite occurred in the Mexico game and it was impressive that Mexico prevented Brazil from creating hardly any chances despite Brazil having to gamble and attack.
  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Shrug. Friendlies are friendlies.

    I don't know why people act surprised by any of this, though.

    Mexico is the reigning CONCACAF champ...............of course they're the "boss" of the region.

    And Mexico has won 2 of the last 4 U17 World Cups, finished 3rd in the 2011 U20 World Cup (beating France in the semifinal), and it wouldn't shock anybody if they medal at the Olympics this summer. All of these youth players are matriculating up their system.

    The US is undoubtedly catching up right now...............but friendlies against a U23 Brazilian side really aren't a measuring stick.
  7. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

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    Incorrect martin fisher
    Mexico's passing was off, but because of Brazil speed and pressure. There were some signs in the 2nd half of some Mex pressure, but not nearly the normal Mex possession.

    Brazil was on the entire game. No egg dropped, nothing. The defense was all over them from all directions and prevented a lot of chances for Brazil.

    the game situation made Mexico look like they were bunkering, which you can argue they were. Brazil was just walking around int he 2nd half with a 2-3 point lead. I could see the game just get boring for them. US got near chances because of this.
  8. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Not sure what we disagree about other than the spelling of my name.

    I agree that Mexico didn't play that well offensively.

    Once again, I don't disagree with this. Mexico's defense was outstanding, though I think Brazil mailed it in in th second half, but this is just speculation on my part.

    I don't think this is accurate. After Brazil got a 3 goal lead, the game died. But that was relatively late and until then, in my opinion, Brazil knew that they could lose the lead and played accordingly, defenisvely but not "walking around". When the last goal occurred and the result was assured, the chances dried up instead of increasing as one would expect with your theory.

    With friendlies you can never tell. My opinion is that the USMNT's good offensive showing against Brazil is a good indicator of what we can do, but who knows. Despite my comments, I won't be betting on the US to get a result against Mexico unless we can play at sub-zero tempatures inn some hole like Columbus.
    tab5g and Caipirinho repped this.
  9. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

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    qft, i like that ;)
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Mexico is the reigning Gold Cup, U23, and U20 CONCACAF Champion. They didn't have to play in the 2011 U17 CONCACAF tournament as they were automatically qualified as the hosts. Of course, they won the subsequent U17 World Cup.

    So right now Mexico is ahead of the US at the U17, U20, U23, and senior level.

    So if people are going to act suprised that Mexico looks better than us right now.................my response is "Where have you been?"
    BringSoccerToIndy and ImaPuppy repped this.
  11. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

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    but actually mexico has been in a hole for 10 years vs the US and needs to dig themselves out of it.

    :D
  12. johnsemlak

    johnsemlak Member

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    I am not entirely unaware of more significant results in the Concacaf power struggle involving the senior team; however, I think most fans aren't as aware as you are of the US's results viz a viz Mexico at the youth level. With youth tournaments, personally I follow the US team only; I don't track Mexico or anybody else.
  13. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Sort of. At the senior level the only real decisive victories were the world cup game and the 07 gold cup. The rest of that hole were irrelevant friendlies and an amazing record of splitting world cup qualifiers exactly down the middle for over 30 years.

    There aren't many games to really prove ones self between the two teams so these holes seem longer than in terms of pure games contested between the two.
  14. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

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    Keep in mind, not too long ago, Mexico's youth system wasn't nearly as strong, having missed out on the '07 U17 WC, the '08 Olympics, AND the '09 U20 WC. They came out just fine, so I expect us to come out fine in a couple years as well. (not youth champions or anything, but we'll be alright)
    JG repped this.
  15. az2004

    az2004 Member

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    and usa and mexico won't be meeting till 2013 in a real match, so things will change as JK gets to mix his system thru real test matches

    i think usa needs to find a new cb pairing though as age in boca and onyewu is a problem

    and cameron with goodson dom't thrill me, but if that's what it'll be, i'm all for blooding them now

    hey get them ready, and play them in azteca in august

    with terrence boyd having a full year under his belt, mexico will have their own set of problems
  16. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

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    Clint hit it on the head. Mexico u17 2x World Champions, Mexico u20 finished 3rd in the World Cup, Mexico u23 dominated Olympic Qualifying and won a recent French Tourney and I believe their U15 team won some tournament as well. Mexico right now is a step above the US on all levels. Not a surprise though considering the emphasis the FMF and MFL have put into developing players over the last number of years.
  17. ipaman

    ipaman Member+

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    terrence boyds lungs will explode after 15 minutes in the azteca. :D
  18. ipaman

    ipaman Member+

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    this is a badly mishit post because your statement is simply not true.

    after watching video of every angle possible i can 100% conclude that was a shot on goal. watch the videos, you'll see the same. give him credit, he's done it before.

    it's sad you mistake sublime skill for a mishit instead of truly enjoying how difficult and amazing that goal was. GOLAAAAZOOOOOO!!!!!
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

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    Mexican players tend to peak early. They almost always seem to have a much higher ceiling than they actually do. Take the case of Vela, for example.

    Right now, IMO, the Mexican first team is playing better than the USMNT. But they are more settled, a team that knows their own personality. Chepo has worked with them for nearly two years. JK has less than a year.

    It's a process.
  20. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    There is another thread where this was discussed. When I watched the replays a number of times, especially the one where the camera is on the sideline shooting from behind Gio, what I saw was Gio's expresss disappointment when the ball missed Hernandez and then, unmistakably, surprise when it wound up in the goal. Based on this, I am as sure as I can be without getting in Gio's head that that Mexico's first goal was luck that probably changed the course of the game.
  21. sowrong

    sowrong Member+

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    Vela, just had probably the most productive season of any Mexican Abroad, and definitely the best of his young career. Dont think its a sign of peaking, much like Gio's time at Racing proved last year, its more just a case of the EPL not necessarily fitting their style of play.
  22. dna77054

    dna77054 Member

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    Concerning Gio's goal. It was both skill and luck. Here what I think happened. Gio intentionally hit a dangerous lob to the back post, EXPECTING a back post run from Cheech, who instead made a near post run., thus the look of disappointment when he saw his ball "harmlessly" float over Cheech. Gio's chip happened to find the back of the net because he put it in what he though would be a dangerous place and had some luck that it happened to go in. I do not see it as being a mishit because if he was actually crossing for Cheech's near post run, he would have driven the ball in the pace where a slight deflection could put in goal, not tried to float it near post. A mishit on a driven ball would have looked much different. The goal was a strange combination of miscommunication, skill, and some good fortune. Ironically, if Cheech had actually made that back post run, the goalie may have been more central and intercepted the ball.
  23. az2004

    az2004 Member

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    watch the spin on the ball as it was deflected by the brasilian

    the move to get free for the shot was the key, then luck, the actually shot could have gone anywhere

    gio did NOT intend to place the ball where iy went

    so mexican fans are intent on relying on azteca..

    both usa and mexico will make it t brasil


    see you in 2 years when it counts after chicirito has 2 full epl seasons and is sucking air from fatigue
  24. DGreat

    DGreat Moderator Staff Member

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  25. JG

    JG Member+

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