1. Save 40-80% on great soccer jerseys. Shop today at BigSoccer Shop!

All-Time Argentina Squad

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Perú FC, Oct 25, 2012.

Moderators: comme
  1. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    Following my project to make all-time squads of different countries I finished my second all-time squad. After making my All-Time Peru Squad I decided to try to do the same work with Argentina. I posted the full article on my blog: Selección Histórica de Argentina

    This is the summary of the 25-men squad:

    01 GK CARRIZO, Amadeo
    14 CB PERFUMO, Roberto
    19 SW PASSARELLA, Daniel
    04 RB ZANETTI, Javier
    03 LB MARZOLINI, Silvio
    05 DM MONTI, Luis
    08 AM MORENO, José Manuel
    11 AM DI STÉFANO, Alfredo
    10 AM MARADONA, Diego
    18 FW MESSI, Lionel
    09 CF BATISTUTA, Gabriel

    12 GK FILLOL, Ubaldo
    25 CB RUGGERI, Óscar
    02 CB AYALA, Roberto
    23 RB SOSA, Carlos
    15 DM ROSSI, Néstor
    06 DM REDONDO, Fernando
    16 AM RIQUELME, Juan Román
    17 AM BOCHINI, Ricardo
    22 AM SASTRE, Antonio
    13 AM PEDERNERA, Adolfo
    20 AM SÍVORI, Omar
    21 LW ORSI, Raimundo
    24 FW LABRUNA, Ángel
    07 CF KEMPES, Mario

    [​IMG]

    And these are my positional rankings:

    Goalkeepers

    01. CARRIZO, Amadeo
    02. FILLOL, Ubaldo
    03. DOMÍNGUEZ, Rogelio
    04. TESORIERE, Américo
    05. ROMA, Antonio
    06. GATTI, Hugo
    07. COZZI, Julio
    08. PUMPIDO, Nery
    09. SANTORO, Miguel Ángel
    10. GUALCO, Sebastián
    11. CEJAS, Agustín
    12. MARÍN, Miguel
    13. GOYCOCHEA, Sergio
    14. ANDRADA, Edgardo
    15. MUSIMESSI, Julio

    Central Defenders

    01. PASSARELLA, Daniel
    02. PERFUMO, Roberto
    03. RUGGERI, Óscar
    04. AYALA, Roberto
    05. RAMOS DELGADO, José
    06. SALOMÓN, José
    07. BIDOGLIO, Ludovico
    08. SAMUEL, Walter
    09. SACCHI, Federico
    10. DELLACHA, Pedro
    11. SÁ, Francisco
    12. ALBRECHT, Rafael
    13. GRIFFA, Jorge
    14. PIAZZA, Osvaldo
    15. SENSINI, Roberto

    Right-backs

    01. ZANETTI, Javier
    02. SOSA, Carlos
    03. OLGUÍN, Jorge
    04. WOLFF, Enrique
    05. YÁCONO, Norberto
    06. OLARTICOECHEA, Julio
    07. LOMBARDO, Juan Francisco

    Left-backs

    01. MARZOLINI, Silvio
    02. SORÍN, Juan Pablo
    03. TARANTINI, Alberto
    04. CARRASCOSA, Jorge
    05. PESCIA, Natalio
    06. VAIRO, Federico
    07. SUÁREZ, Pedro

    Defensive Midfielders

    01. MONTI, Luis
    02. REDONDO, Fernando
    03. ROSSI, Néstor
    04. RATTÍN, Antonio
    05. LAZZATTI, Ernesto
    06. PERUCCA, Ángel
    07. CAMBIASSO, Esteban
    08. MASCHERANO, Javier
    09. MARANGONI, Claudio
    10. GALLEGO, Américo
    11. BATISTA, Sergio
    12. ALMEYDA, Matías
    13. MOURIÑO, Eliseo
    14. ASTRADA, Leonardo
    15. RAIMONDO, Miguel Ángel

    Central Midfielders

    01. ARDILES, Osvaldo
    02. VERÓN, Juan Sebastián
    03. SIMEONE, Diego
    04. GIUSTI, Ricardo
    05. BARBAS, Juan
    06. MARTINO, Gerardo
    07. ZUMELZÚ, Adolfo
    08. TROBBIANI, Marcelo
    09. BASUALDO, José

    Attacking-midfielders

    01. BOCHINI, Ricardo
    02. RIQUELME, Juan Román
    03. BRINDISI, Miguel Ángel
    04. ALONSO, Norberto
    05. BURRUCHAGA, Jorge Luis
    06. PASTORIZA, José Omar
    07. BABINGTON, Carlos
    08. AIMAR, Pablo
    09. ROSSI, Óscar
    10. GOROSITO, Néstor
    11. LÓPEZ, Juan José
    12. SABELLA, Alejandro
    13. ZANABRIA, Mario
    14. GALLARDO, Marcelo
    15. D'ALESSANDRO, Andrés

    Deep-lying forwards

    01. MARADONA, Diego
    02. DI STÉFANO, Alfredo
    03. MORENO, José Manuel
    04. PEDERNERA, Adolfo
    05. SÍVORI, Omar
    06. SASTRE, Antonio
    07. MARTINO, Rinaldo
    08. ONEGA, Ermindo
    09. GRILLO, Ernesto
    10. MASCHIO, Humberto
    11. CESARINI, Renato
    12. ORTEGA, Ariel
    13. MÁRCICO, Alberto
    14. BORGHI, Claudio
    15. SCOPELLI, Alejandro

    Right-wingers

    01. CORBATTA, Omar
    02. PEUCELLE, Carlos
    03. HOUSEMAN, René
    04. BERTONI, Daniel
    05. BOYÉ, Mario
    06. BERNAO, Raúl
    07. MUÑOZ, Juan Carlos
    08. SCOTTA, Héctor
    09. MASTRÁNGELO, Ernesto
    10. VERNAZZA, Santiago

    Left-wingers

    01. ORSI, Raimundo
    02. LOUSTAU, Félix
    03. GARCÍA, Enrique
    04. MÁS, Óscar
    05. PELEGRINA, Manuel
    06. VERÓN, Juan Ramón
    07. CUCCHIARONI, Ernesto
    08. GUAITA, Enrique
    09. BELÉN, Raúl
    10. SUED, Ezra

    Forwards

    01. MESSI, Lionel
    02. LABRUNA, Ángel
    03. SEOANE, Manuel
    04. OHACO, Alberto
    05. FERREIRA, Manuel
    06. MÉNDEZ, Norberto
    07. VARALLO, Francisco
    08. DE LA MATA, Vicente
    09. ANGELILLO, Antonio
    10. CHERRO, Roberto
    11. CANIGGIA, Claudio
    12. ROJAS, Ángel Clemente
    13. TÉVEZ, Carlos
    14. LÓPEZ, Claudio
    15. AYALA, Rubén

    Centre-forwards

    01. BATISTUTA, Gabriel
    02. KEMPES, Mario
    03. PONTONI, René
    04. FERREYRA, Bernabé
    05. ARTIME, Luis
    06. CRESPO, Hernán
    07. SANFILIPPO, José
    08. MASANTONIO, Herminio
    09. BIANCHI, Carlos
    10. TARASCONI, Domingo
    11. SARLANGA, Jaime
    12. STÁBILE, Guillermo
    13. VALDANO, Jorge
    14. YAZALDE, Héctor
    15. ONNIS, Delio
     
    Moishe, atomicbloke, ChaChaFut and 6 others repped this.


  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Location:
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    Argentina
    Fillol should be the goalkeeper. Ruggeri should be there two for the facts he's main players in WC 86 and 90, Copa America 91 & 93 and confederation cup 92. Argentina won all those tournament except 90 where they still reached the final, and Ruggeri did not play the final itself because of 2 yellows.
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Good work again Peru :thumbsup:. How many of these are you going to do?

    Could you see a way for your all-time Peru selection to have a chance to beat this Argentina selection? I liked the formation for your Peru squad, which I guess suited the best players and was somewhat retro. It would be open to exploitation by Argentina's star AM's you've got there, although I admit I'm not familiar enough with the players you've put in the 'wing-half' like positions for Peru - they could be mainly defensive players. My latest idea for a formation is 3-3-3-1 :laugh: (guess slightly similar formations have been used before - Brazil in WC'02 if you count Juninho or Kleberson as playing ahead of Gilberto Silva - I think it was more like 3-4-2-1 though really). I think for an England selection I'd be likely to go with a 4-4-2 or similar formation though, having Matthews and Finney available.

    Was Monti over Redondo a close call - maybe you feel Redondo would have too much work on to cover the very attacking AM's for one thing?

    25 players with 2 goalies is a nice choice I think too.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    why is Perucca ranked ahead of Cambiasso and Mascherano?
     


  5. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Not a bad first team, but I agree with the poster above that Ruggieri should start over Perfumo, El Tigre may be less talented but his performances with the NT are beyond questioning. Redondo just ahead of Monti, and Batistuta did not do enough for the NT to merit a start. Here is my team:

    Fillol/Carrizo
    Zanetti-Ruggieri-Passarella-Marzolini
    Redondo-Rossi-Maradona
    Pedernera-DiStefano-Moreno

    Not sure why Cambiasso, D'Alessandro, Borghi and a few others are even on the list.
     
  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
  7. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Good work Peru ...

    However some player positions are very debatable:

    Kempes was no center forward, but either AM or support/second forward. He was just like Ortega Maradona was clearly an AM/playmaker (not "deeplying forward")
    Redondo was not a puer DM, but more like a center midfielder
     
  8. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    Ubaldo Fillol is a very popular option for Argentina and very remembered for his spectacular style, however, Amadeo Carrizo was a superstar of his time and was a pioneer of a new type of goalkeeper to the history.

    Carrizo was selected not only as the best Argentine goalkeeper but as the best goalkeeper in South American history by the IFFHS in 1999. Personally, I rank Carrizo between the 8th and 12th position as the best goalkeeper ever and Fillol between the 11th and 14th.

    Roberto Perfumo vs. Óscar Ruggeri is another difficult decision to make. Despite Ruggeri awards, Perfumo not only had excellent performances at national level in the 1966 and 1974 World Cups but I think he had also a brighter club career being an absolute star in Racing Club and Cruzeiro. Personally, I rank Perfumo between the 29th to 36th position as the best central defender ever and Ruggeri between 32th to 36th.
     
  9. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    Thanks mate. Honestly, I haven't thought about how many all-time squads I'll do but after Peru and Argentina I'll continue with Brazil.

    Well, I must say that the Peruvian all-time team I formed seems me in a high level but in a hypothetical match against this Argentina all-time team the favoritism is definitely to the albicelestes. They've players in a higher level than any Peruvian as Maradona, Di Stéfano, Moreno and Messi. Even some substitutes as Pedernera and Sívori seems me slightly better than the best Peruvian player ever, Teófilo Cubillas.

    Fernando Redondo was a great defensive midfielder but I think his status is raised mainly by his great technical skills in offensive and in a team with Moreno, Di Stéfano and Maradona in the midfield I believe was better cover them with their best midfielder in defensive tasks, Luis Monti. Personally, I also rank Monti over Redondo by a small margin.
     
  10. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    Although seem redundant, because I think he reached a highest level and a better consideration in his own time. "El Portón de América" was according many narrators and historians the best South American defensive midfielder of the 40's, even over the legendary Uruguayan Obdulio Varela.
     
  11. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    I've to clarify that these selections I'm doing aren't based only in their performances for their national team but about overall dimension of each player including their club careers. That's the reason because some starring players as Alfredo Di Stéfano or Ricardo Bochini are here despite their few appearances with the Argentina shirt. That's also the reason because I'd definitely put to Arsenio Erico in a Paraguayan all-time squad despite he never player at international level.

    Good team mate, but I also try to take into account the laterality of the players. Moreno was a very polyfunctional player but mainly an inside-right so I'd put him ever by the right side. Meanwhile, although Adolfo Pedernera was theoretically the centre-forward of "La Máquina", he was basically the mastermind of the midfield in that team so I wouldn't put him as a right-attacker. At that formation, I'd say he could occupy the position of Maradona or Di Stéfano as a deep-lying forward.
     
  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    I'd say that Ruggeri only reached world class performance in his 1st season on La Liga.
    Perfumo had more world class seasons. At least 3 years (2 in Racing and 1 more: Cruzeiro/River).

    On the other hand, Ruggeri had more impact than Perfumo on NT, but not for a large margin.
     
  13. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    I think those are very interesting statistics that create a pattern but I've a different point of view about Domínguez. He had a career that began at a young age as one of the pillars of Racing Club and was a starring player for Real Madrid definitely at world level. Then he still had a strong career playing for Vélez Sársfield, Nacional and Flamengo.
     
  14. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Lima, Perú
    I'm agree. In the overall balance I believe Perfumo have the clear advantage.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Who and which publications considered him over Varela?
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    which seasons of Perfumo are world class do you think?
     
  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    I agree that Dominguez must reached world class level in his RM seasons. Since in mid-50s the NT starter was an older Mussimesi, and when Dominguez return from europe the starter in NT was Roma (sometimes Carrizo). I can deduced that Dominguez can't reached the same level in other clubs apart from Real Madrid.

    In the case of Roma and Gatti, is better known they had a more consistent career
    Roma: 1 world class (1964). Other possibly seasons are 1962 and 1966.
    Only ranking season available (but he had 17 years career and 10 years in NT)

    Gatti: 3 world class (1975, 82, 86-87); 3 intl class (1969, 74, 76)
    Most seasons missed in a more than 20 years career
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...nkings-of-argentinean-football.1862688/page-2
     
  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    There are many Argentine players with fantastic club careers who either did not play much for the NT (Bochini, Redondo, Riquelme) or played often but did not match the same level (Carrizo, Ortega, Samuel). Batistuta falls into the latter category once he reached age 26, after Copa America 95. His club career was excellent but to me not enough to put him as a starter in an all-time squad when there are Moreno, Labruna, Sivori, Kempes, Bertoni and Messi as forwards.

    Pedernera and Maradona would be the offensive midfielders in my lineup, with DiStefano and Moreno up front.

    Did Dominguez play much at Real Madrid?
     
  19. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    Obdulio Varela wasn't a sure starter for Uruguay in the 40s (Galvalisi in early 40s and Rodolfo Pini at late 40s had many caps). Aditionally Varela had only regular skillset.

    Instead of Perucca who reached the best peak for a Pyramid Centerhalf in the 40s (best recognition, ideal teams nominations, etc).


    Perfumo: 2 world class (1969, 75); 1 intl class (1976)
    Other potential wc years are 1966 and 1968.
    The ratings are from the same source above quoted.
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thanks. Are you aware of high-profiled ideal teams where players of Perucca his era featured in?

    Regarding Perfumo: before 1974WC he was seen here is one of their key players and also one of the better center backs around.
    When Argentina missed 1970WC, a similar comment was made in relation to "guys that will not appear in Mexico".
     
  21. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Could you make a list sometime with all WC/IC seasons for each year? Would be very informative.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    How strong was the Argentinian league in those days? Does something like an UEFA coefficient list exists for South America? Or another method to gauge it? Also a method vis-a-vis European leagues perhaps?
    How good is El Grafico in their ratings?
     
  23. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I guess those questions are targeted at msioux and Peru, but the Argentine Primera División (remember that their only true rivals talent was splitted up among several regional championships) not being the #1 league in SA would greatly surprise me.

    I'm not aware of any coefficient list being used to hand out Copa Libertadores spots.
    http://scoreshelf.com/pmgb/en/CONMEBOL/Copa_Libertadores/1960-1969
    This is quite interesting.
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes I agree with you, certainly with regards to first paragraph.

    Strength vis-a-vis European teams is always a heated and thorny question but I remember several discussions where people like comme (that is: the posters who are held in particular high regard by most people) argued how historically weak the 1974 and 1978 Argentinian teams actually were (did not qualify for 1970 and 1966 edition is an heated debate to this day) and record in Intercontinental Cup is also frequent subject of debate.

    This is btw not a view held by me. Record in Copa Libertadores has btw a few issues but in general it is a good overview, yes.
     
  25. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    Very interesting link ;)

    A first-looked discrepancy would be U.Catolica > Colo Colo > U.de Chile in the 60s. It's widely regarded than Universidad de Chile was the better chilean team those years, the higher peak and better football. They were nicknamed El Ballet Azul, just like Millonarios.
     
Moderators: comme

Share This Page