Blocking a punt? Or legal play?...

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Cobras7, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    Here is the link, situation is toward the end (only 10 seconds in):

    This situation seems a bit unlikely to ever happen to me, but i would like to be prepared if it does! :) Clearly the Green #8 is attempting to block a punt from the goalie in red. But it doesn't seemed to get called that way. Am i mistaken because there wasn't actually a punt attempt? Any thoughts from my fellow referees? What would you call?


  2. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    What do you think the call was? As I recall, So'ongo got cautioned.
  3. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    I would have called for an attempt to block a goalie's release and caution #8, but the video didn't go that far and i wasn't sure of the outcome.
  4. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

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    To me, this is the same as if a goalkeeper was bouncing the ball to himself off the surface of the field. In that case, the goalkeeper is considered to still have possession in his hands. Therefore, in this case, it would be just as if a player kicked the ball out of a keepers hands when he had clear possession of it.

    I'd give a caution for USB and IFK out.
    Cobras7 repped this.


  5. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    Yes, it sounded to me like the announcers were saying that once the keeper lets go of the ball, it is out of his possesion. That wasn't the way i saw it though. I would certainly have carded him for USB.
  6. NW Referee

    NW Referee Member

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    Announcers often say things that are not supported by the LOTG as is the case here. This was classic interfering with the goalkeeper releasing the ball into play and Songo'o was rightly cautioned for his actions.

    As a referee or an AR you should always keep an eye on the goalkeeper when they have not released the ball yet and an opposing player is hovering around to watch for stuff like this. Sometimes you can manage it with your voice but sometimes players just do stupid things like this video shows.
  7. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    You cannot prevent the goal keeper from putting the ball back into play. This is a cautionable offense. See Law 12 fouls and misconduct. Specifically indirect free kicks.
  8. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree it is cautionable.
    According to the mach report (9-29-12) he was cautioned.
    But I've always had a problem with this and I'd like your thoughts.

    Law 12 reads "prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands".

    The ATR, however states "An opponent does not violate the Law, however, if the player takes advantage of a ball released by the goalkeeper directly to him or her, in his or her direction, or deflecting off him or her nonviolently."

    I have never called this because common practice is that we do not.
    But I've always wanted to.

    It can only occur in one situation and this video is it.

    Here, the player is outside the PA.
    The GK, while inside the PA tosses the ball over the edge of the PA to kick it.

    To me, once that ball has crossed the edge of the PA, it has been released.
    The keeper has no protection outside the PA.
    The player didn't prevent a release.

    Like I said, I've never called it this way because I've never seen anyone else do it.
    But according to a strict reading of the rules, I think there's an argument it is legal.

    I also think it would end the annoying yet trifling practices of keepers releasing the ball as they step out of the PA. I would say 2-3 times a game, the keeper is still handling the ball as he crosses the edge of the PA. It's trifling and thus not called.

    But I certainly see why So'ongo did what he did.
    It is unfortunate that he had to be cautioned for it.
  9. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    Billy I disagree. I do not accept that if an attacker stands at the edge of the penalty area he cannot be guilty of interfering with the release of the ball by the keeper. Many times the opponent follows the path of the keeper and makes contact with the ball. The opponent is interfering. If the ball is in the keepers hands and he throws or punts the ball and the defender is close enough meaning three or four feet away for him to block the ball while standing or jumping up, the opponent has interfered with the release of the ball. Most times the ball on a punt is released at then edge of the penalty area and the actual kick occurs 1 foot beyond the boundary line of the penalty area. I am still calling it.
  10. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying I'd call it, but where does it end?
    Does a keeper get the PA, PA+1', +2' + 3'?
    Doesn't it make since to change this rule to read "prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands WHILE IN THE PA" and all of this gray area disappears?
  11. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    Are we actually discussing this play? If ANYONE allowed the attacker to take the ball away after the 'keeper released it in the act of punting, we would have anarchy. Now, if he was to roll it somewhere.....
  12. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    Billy is discussing this. I know for me this is a complete non issue and I am always cautioning for that action.
  13. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    The keeper gets a lot of latitude. It's in my opinion as the referee.
  14. wguynes

    wguynes Member

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    This is one of those areas where having a referee is necessary. So many of my fellow Americans would just love to see it in writing as, say "3 ft", then they could lawyer-up when they block one from 4' away, verified by instant replay, freeze-frame camera, of course. What a bunch of tripe.

    If the referee thinks a player is interfering with the release then he is. Directives are clear and most all video clips I see show referee consistency of IFK restart (caution appears to be less so) both in the U.S. and internationally. There is no debate about this in the referee community. All debate appears to be from outside. Some youthful player thinks he has found a hole in the Laws that no one else has ever thought of, which stirs the pot anew.

    How about we just tell them, "you can't block the punt"? Shorter. Simpler. Takes less than 5 seconds to say. The least intelligent player on the field can understand it.
  15. Chas (Psyatika)

    Chas (Psyatika) Member

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    The more 'classic' example:



    Complete with inane commentary: "I think that, maybe, has left his palm!"
  16. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    No it doesn't. Use some common sense. Keepers routinely move to the edge of the pa to release the ball into play and we as referees routinely give them some latitutde as to where they are in terms of in or out of the pa when they release the ball. The intent of the Law in question isn't to judge where the keeper is in relation to the pa markings....its to allow the unimpeded release of the ball into play. Call it that way.
  17. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    Look, I said I would always call it that way.
    All I said is that I see why So'ongo did what he did.
    The ball left the area, he probably thought he was free to play it.
    The Henry incident is different.

    I would caution So'ongo.
    I'm just saying it is unfortunate.
  18. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    No, So'ongo is simply being a douche.
    La Rikardo repped this.
  19. Alberto

    Alberto Moderator Staff Member

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    Billy stop. You are being unreasonable.
  20. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member

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    Congratulations, SportBilly!
    You have become PVancouver.
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  21. Cobras7

    Cobras7 Member

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    The usual play that happens to me is the keeper rolls the ball out and doesn't realize an attacker is behind him. They score and of course the goal stands but I hadn't seen one like this or the other video posted. I would have called it but just wanted to know if anyone else had seen this done or had to call it.
  22. Law5

    Law5 Member+

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    Absolutely. There was a famous situation very similar to this in a World Cup qualifier between Trinidad and Bahrain. FIFA even released a statement after that one saying that action like you see here is interfering with the keeper's release of the ball. IFK coming out.
  23. 2wheels

    2wheels Member

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    like this >>

    then, nothing doing, fair and legal play, right?
  24. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member

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    Exactly.

    The difference is that in the OP's video, the GK has released the ball in order to punt it. As others have stated, this is just like when the GK bounces the ball - still considered to be in his possession.

    In your video, the GK has clearly released the ball to the ground and it is live.
    dadman, Eastshire and MrPerfectNot repped this.
  25. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    ******** this.
    I'm done here.

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