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BVB 2012-2013 Champions' League Thread [R]

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by footyfan1, Jul 11, 2012.

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How Will BVB Do In The 2012-2013 CL??

  1. BVB Will Win The CL.

    23 vote(s)
    29.9%
  2. BVB Will Make The CL Final And Lose There.

    20 vote(s)
    26.0%
  3. BVB Will Make The CL Semi-Finals And Lose There.

    8 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. BVB Will Make The CL Quarter-Finals And Lose There.

    11 vote(s)
    14.3%
  5. BVB Will Make The CL Round Of 16 And Lose There.

    5 vote(s)
    6.5%
  6. BVB Will Not Get Past The Group Stage Again.

    10 vote(s)
    13.0%
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  1. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    I strongly disagree with one thing Kloppo says in this article. He says that after our last (CL) outing, the pressure is off us. I think the pressure is increased because of it. Maybe he meant the nervousness will be gone???


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



    Winning The Champions League Is Not Impossible For Dortmund, Says Klopp



    The 45-year-old coach is eager for success on the continental stage next season, and is confident his players know what is expected of them




    [​IMG]





    Borussia Dortmund boss Jurgen Klopp hopes his charges have learned some lessons from their Champions League ouster last season.



    The Bundesliga champions entered Europe's premier club competition as dark horses the previous term but collected only four points to finish at the bottom of Group F.

    *








    *








    [SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=4][FONT=arial]*[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]








    [SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=4][FONT=arial]"We feel clear about our potential, and the pressure is off after our last outing. That does not mean we already have the final, let alone the semi-finals, in our sights yet though.........."[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]
     
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  2. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    The article above is a bad translation!! Sorry!!!
     
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  3. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

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    That's like the same logic based off who beat who, but whatever he's doing it could work. Despite the back to back, the 'druk' will remain in the same place. :/

    Olympiakos>Dortmund>Bayern>Madrid :D :p
     
  4. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Maybe in your eyes.

    He would have been better off using how S04 reached the semis the season before.

    What he was trying to say is what I've been saying all along.

    You don't have to be the best team to make it far in the CL.........

    You just have to get hot at the right time and/or have some luck.

    That tells the story of not only Bayern last season, but Chelsea too.

    That's what he meant. Not some silly kiddie stuff like we see above.
     
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  5. "Eisenfuß" Eilts

    "Eisenfuß" Eilts Member+

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    The Dortmund players collected a lot of experience last season and their NT players at the Euro. I expect you to show a good performance in the CL.
     
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  6. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm not sure. Of course, I want them to do better in the CL, but it isn't the be all and end all for us.

    The battle to try to "three-peat" in the Bundesliga is going to be a great one. That's the one I worry about the most. The CL is just another revenue source for us right now. This team is still growing and as long as we keep interchanging pieces, that doesn't bode well for making deep CL runs.

    But of course, time will tell.........
     
  7. lemons

    lemons Member

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    I'm not worried about the CL at all. Anything positive we do there is a bonus, in my eyes. I'm crossing my fingers for a trifecta of Bundesliga plates. ;)
     
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  8. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    I'd personally like to see Dortmund put more importance on Europe this season.

    No doubt the performances might vary domestically but I don't think being in Europe will cause the quality to drop immensely or enough to fall out of European contention.
     
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  9. The Potter

    The Potter Member

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    Man City - Dortmund final. Feeling it.
     
  10. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    It isn't about "dropping quality." It is just that those quality players tend to continue making mistakes in the CL they usually get away with in the Bundesliga. Of course, they don't get away with them in the Champions' League.

    Those mistakes are what help kill us. Those mistakes are a part of what BVB is. I want us to stop making them, but I fear we won't. And I believe that will possibly kill us in the CL again.


    The BL? Different story. Only one club, maybe two, are strong enough to make us pay for them.........
     
  11. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

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    BTDT....It's your time to do it.
     
  12. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

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    [​IMG]

    Not if you're going for a 3peat
     
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  13. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    Dortmund will not only have the pressure of reversing their fortunes but will continue to be in the shadow of German teams who are notorious for performing badly and being ill-equipped to Europe.

    It's mostly a cultural problem and to put the hopes on this side to reverse over a decade of cultural/tactical failings is a massive ask.

    Still if any side has the potential, it's this side. It will all depend on how Klopp will outfit and prepare the side mentally.
     
  14. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Klopp will do what he's always been doing. Try to take the pressure off them instead of making them deal with the pressure. This is another thing I feel has hurt them in the past and will again.

    BVB will do better in the CL when the club and the players decide to make it their priority. They want to do better too, but it isn't their priority.

    Yet.

    It seems to be everyone else's priority. And I don't think they care too much about what everyone else thinks.........
     
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  15. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    Shame.

    Would really like German teams to prioritize Europe.

    Feel the NT would benefit from that too.
     
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  16. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    The NT benefits from players getting better.

    They don't have to win or even do great in the CL to get better.

    Or did Hummels suck this past Euro tourney? The way I saw it, he fuggin' outplayed every player from Bayern and Real. Did he not?

    Did Marco Reus not??

    Again, it isn't up to you to set BVB's priorities. Our leadership will do that.

    Until then, we will allow our team to nuture and grow according to plan.

    With or without the permission of others........
     
  17. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    There is a direct correlation between the failure's of the National Team and the failures of German club teams in Europe by virtue of the tactical approaches.

    Since the International Level is not the highest any longer, the Champions League dictates tactical trends now and if you can do well there, it is easier to translate that to the International Stage.

    Loew's lack of tactical know-how isn't any different from the various tactical inabilities of numerous German coaches in the past decade and how they continually crashed out by pursuing a limited and rigid gameplan or not really emphasizing re-adjusting to the European game.
     
  18. swit0539

    swit0539 Member

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    do you think that maybe BVB's failure on in the European stage could indicate that Klopp is not a tournament manager so to speak? Certainly there are many other factors, lack of experience, rigid tactics etc..

    I am not too sure if I even believe that you could make such a distinction between tournament/league managers? (I'm scratching my head for some examples of a tournament manager....Berti? Maybe Harry Redknapp?). What do you guys think?
     
  19. swit0539

    swit0539 Member

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    i agree that BVB is going through a stage of building themselves up, for this, the BL must be top priority, from BL success flows the rest. CL is there for money and attracting quality players. However, this year, I believe that a minimum expectation is to get through the first round. Getting booted first round would be short of a disaster.....on a side note, I am playing Football Manager 2012 (greatest game EVER!), the year is 2019, Julian Schieber (valued at 30 million pounds) has just been named World Player of the Year. lol
     
  20. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Exactly.



    Most definitely. I didn't say we wouldn't try to do better. I'm just saying it isn't a foregone conclusion that we will and stated the reasons why that is.




    It would be a disaster for everyone else. As long as we're doing good in the league and we didn't embarrass ourselves in going out, I wouldn't be distraught about it. We'll simply re-load and try again.

    And for those who will moan that we aren't "good enough", they can either beat us and keep us out of the CL or drink a nice big cup of STFU........ :mad:

    They don't get to set Borussia Dortmund's priorities. :rolleyes:
     
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  21. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    I would agree with this. Klopp has taught our guys to play one style and very slight variations of it so well, that it is very successful in the league, but hasn't stood up to the Euro test yet.

    Much of it had to do with nervousness, but much of it was being made to pay for stupid mistakes too. Mistakes we aren't made to pay for in the league.

    As I previously stated, those mistakes haven't stopped. And as long at they continue, we'll have problems in the CL.........
     
  22. CanStriker

    CanStriker Member

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    If I were in a leadership position at BvB, I'd be pushing to prioritize the BL as well. They have a Three-peat on the line, one more title brands this entire timespan as the "BvB era". In many ways, history is on the line.

    Starting next season however, when the name players are all in/very close to their primes, Id push for making a deep CL run as the top priority.
     
  23. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Correct. People consider that '95-'97 team the "greatest BVB team" because they won two titles and the CL. If this team can win three consecutive titles, they'll become only the third BL club to do so and the first not named Bayern since Gladbach finished off the last of three consecutive and their very last Bundesliga title 35 years ago (1977).


    Bayern, the greatest club of the Bundesliga era by far (I puked in my mouth a bit as I typed that), has won three consecutive titles three different times. '72-'74, '85-'87 and '99-'01.


    Bayern also won the CL at the end of winning three consecutive Bundesliga titles in '74 and '01.


    Anyhow, if this BVB team wins another BL title, they will be in the argument with that '95-'97 team as "greatest BVB team." Each team will have done something the other did not do.


    To be quite honest, I already favor this current BVB team. They've won the Bundesliga in dominating fashion twice. They won by seven points in '10-'11 and by eight points in '11-'12. while setting a new Bundesliga record for points won. The '95 team won by one point. The '96 team won by seven points.

    However, to be fair to the '95 team, they were still playing under the old two-point system. But they also only had the same number of victories (20) as the second (Bremen) and third-placed (Freiburg) teams. The '96 team might have won by seven points, but they won one fewer match than the '95 team and had the same amount of victories as the second-placed team (Bayern). The '96 team had 11 draws and four defeats while Bayern had 5 draws and 10 defeats.

    The '95-'96 season was the first played under the current three-point system.

    And before people start talking silly s#!t about the competition being stronger back in the '90's, let me alert you to one thing.

    Bayern's 73 points last season would have been enough to win the Bundesliga in ten of the sixteen previous Bundesliga races!


    Those seasons include two of the seasons we won ('96 & '02). Of the six seasons where Bayern's 73 points would not have won the title, four of them were titles won by Bayern themselves.


    One of the others was the 2004 Bremen team. That was considered a "dream season" by many. But at 74 points, that Bremen team only had one more point than last season's Bayern team.

    Of course the other non-Bayern team on that list is our 2011 team. And that team, dominating as it was, only had two more points than last season's Bayern team put up.

    As stated, last season's team set the new points record under that three-point system.


    Again, that '95-'97 team never won the league in dominating fashion and were lucky to have won the CL. IMO, we were truly "Destiny's Child" in 1997. I know that isn't a popular opinion, but it is mine.


    Don't believe it? Watch the semis and final over again and tell me I'm wrong.


    Again, the football quote I'll never forget until the day I die was Jurgen Kohler after the second leg semi-final victory over Manchester United. Kohler, having been asked how he pulled off his out of nowhere miracle block on Eric Cantona in front of a wide-open BVB net, laughed and said "Keine Idee" or "I have no idea." That play summed up our run through the semis and the final for me. Until Chelsea this past season, I thought we had been the luckiest CL winners in the history of the tournament. I still FUGGING LOVE that we won it, but I'm realistic about how we did it.


    If I had to pick a BVB team to go out and win a match to save my life, I would pick last season's team. Not the 1997 team. I don't care how we did in the CL.

    If I had to pick a team to win a tournament, then I'd pick the '97 team for the experience.


    Maybe that's just me.


    I put much less stock in winning a tournament than winning a competitive league. but then again, maybe that's just me..........




    I respect that opinion, but I disagree with it.


    I'd never make the CL "top priority." "Top Priority" should be, and according to Jurgen Klopp, is doing well enough in the league to get back to the CL again. Only one club wins the CL. Making it "top priority" doesn't insure you do well in the competition. But it could insure you don't do well enough in the league to get back into the CL.


    I believe our "top priority" will be to make the CL each season. Once we get there, we let the chips fall where they may. This isn't saying we won't try to win it. This is saying we won't sacrifice the Bundesliga to do so.


    The Bundesliga is about to get highly competitive again in my opinion. I think this might be the season it isn't just BVB, Bayern and the rest a comfortable distance behind.


    Some will think what I'm about to say is fairly hypocritical, but I'm going to say it anyhow. We'll see whose comments make more sense in the matter later.


    With this season's CL Final not being in Munich, you can bet your ass Bayern's #1 priority, to borrow upon something SAF said about Liverpool many years ago, will be to "knock Borussia Dortmund from its f#cking perch......"


    They will say it is the CL, but anyone who knows them knows they want "their title" back.
     
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  24. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    I would hardly consider this BVB side better than the 90's side if they win three consecutive titles.

    The CL IS the greatest prize, the highest quality over the last twenty+ years. Winning it is a harder feat than anything else. It counts far more than a domestic title.

    This BVB side will HAVE to come close to at least winning the CL or start performing much much better in Europe/becoming a European side to win any of those accolades.
     
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  25. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

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    That CL trophy gets you a lot of money. Do you think people actually believe Chelsea is the "best team in Europe" right now?? Really man??

    Besides the money and the cup itself, what else did winning that Cup earn Chelsea except a trip to the next tournament and some extra headlines? Nothing they couldn't have gotten by winning the league.

    Do people believe Chelsea is better than Manchester Shitty because Chelsea won that cup?

    I DON'T THINK SO!

    You're right about one thing. Winning the CL is a great feat. But like any TOURNAMENT, any team getting "hot", "lucky" or both at the right time is sometimes even more important than how good a team actually is. In a TOURNAMENT, the best team can have a bad day and they're done.

    Tournaments are definitely the best way to judge national teams as you cannot have them in a league setup. But tournaments, in my opinon are definitely NOT the best way to judge club teams. But since there will be no "Super League" in the near future, they stick with the CL format.


    And as I've told you before. BVB doesn't HAVE to do shit. You don't get to set the bar.

    History will judge whether a potentially great run of excellence is somehow tarnished if they don't win the CL.

    When this BVB team's run is done, history will judge them overall. Not you.
     
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