Como hablan de nuestra seleccion Colombia en el mundo?

Discussion in 'Colombian National Team' started by OhJúbiloInmortal, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. OhJúbiloInmortal

    OhJúbiloInmortal New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Club:
    Nacional de Medellin
    Country:
    Colombia
    I am always interested in hearing what the rest of the world thinks about Colombian soccer, just to see where we stand. The monthly FIFA rankings, although flawed, are probably the closest thing to a barometer we have.

    In October we were ranked 33rd in the world and 5th in S. America. After losing to Paraguay and tying Brazil, it looks like we are going drop even lower once the November rankings come out (39th?).

    But I also like to hear what the experts have to say. Unfortunately, you really can't find much written on our national team outside of the Colombian media, but one "outsider" who does feature Colombia often, and who is VERY well versed on our NT (and South American soccer in general), is Tim Vickery.

    I know I have promoted his work on here before, but I just read a few of his more recent columns on Colombia and thought it was worth bringing him up again, as it puts our current situation into perspective a bit.

    Tim writes for a few major media outlets, most notably the BBC (UK), Sports Illustrated (US), World Soccer, and Special Broadcasting Service (SBS) in Australia. Interestingly, Colombia has recently been a popular subject in his columns for each of these outlets.

    Google his name along with Colombia - I am sure you will find more than a handful of articles.

    But if you're too lazy, here are some juicy excerpts =)

    VICKERY ON THE END OF "EL DORADO"
    "For the Colombian crowds, accustomed to watching some of the world's finest, the end of the so-called El Dorado period was a blow. But the seed of football had been planted - and a few decades later they had another collection of foreign talent to admire."

    ON THE SECOND "EL DORADO"
    "The second El Dorado period in the country's football was also the consequence of an export crop designed to give a buzz - but this one was cocaine.....Fueled by drug money, the cities of Cali and Medellin boomed, and one of the things the cartels spent their money on, both as launderers and as fans, was football...America de Cali, the plaything of the Cali cartel, became a Latin American version of Real Madrid, and won the league title five times in a row between 1982 and 86."

    ON COLOMBIA'S WORLD CUP APPEARANCES AND INTERNATIONAL FAILURE
    "Under the command of Francisco Maturana they had that terrific side in the late 80s and early 90s - their spectacular and tragic (because of the assassination of defender Andres Escobar) failure in USA 94 has made it easy to forget how good they were....As then-assistant coach Hernan Dario Gomez commented later, Colombia had a team that could beat anyone outside the conditions of a World Cup, but could lose to anyone inside the pressure cooker of the global glare.....Pele had included them among the favourites. They were carrying the hopes of a nation which at the time was tearing itself apart in an orgy of narco-violence. It was all too much for the team to cope with........Their first-round elimination in USA '94 makes it easy to forget just how good that Colombia side really were. Going into the competition they had suffered only one defeat in 34 games - a run which included an extraordinary 5-0 win away to Argentina. It remains the only time Argentina have been beaten at home in World Cup qualification.......Built around the wonderful passing technique and tactical intelligence of midfielder Carlos Valderrama, that side showed promise in Italia 90, collapsed under the strain of USA 94 and were well over the hill by France 98...But the truth is that although they won the Copa America on home ground in 2001, they have so far proved unable to build on the progress made by the 80s/90s generation spearheaded by frizzy-haired midfielder Carlos Valderrama."

    ON A MATURANA-INSPIRED COACHING GENERATION
    "But it is Ecuador who have reaped the benefit. The Medellin gang of coaches - Maturana, Gomez and Luis Fernando Suarez - have all played a role in the rise of Colombia’s smaller neighbour. Back at home, meanwhile, Colombia still waits for the great leap forward."

    ON COLOMBIA'S SHIFT AWAY FROM THE SHORT PASSING DAYS OF
    "EL PIBE"
    ...maybe there has been a tactical confusion resulting from a desire to distance themselves from the hypnotic short passing style of the Valderrama days. There has certainly been a lot less joy in the football played by the Colombia team over the last decade....In 2004 Once Caldas, from the provincial city of Manizales, won the Copa Libertadores and were just a penalty away from lifting the Inter-continental crown - playing an ultra-pragmatic blanket defence football, which thankfully has not proved as successful with the national team. Colombia have frequently talked about the need to play a more dynamic style, but more often than not they have been packing the midfield with battlers and trying to grind out results....Former national team coach Hernan Dario Gomez recently complained that "the style of Colombian football has changed a lot, and it's not to my liking. It's a style that looks for tall players, with strength, speed, power and with little talent and ball skills". "Our old style of possession football is criticised heavily here," he said. "People say you have to be more direct, get the ball forward quickly, you shouldn't pass the ball around so much - and because of this the joy and the talent have finished." There is much in what he says, though Colombia are not totally without talent. What seems to be lacking is ideas or identity....."Forget the goal and look for a team-mate. Keep passing and in the end the goal will appear" - it was the way that Colombia played in the days of Valderrama, and it was beautiful and hypnotic to watch."

    ON PINTO'S FAILURE
    "Any possibility of Jorge Luis Pinto keeping his job disappeared when he attacked his players a couple of days after the Chile game. Some of them didn’t care, he said. They were bored with the training and the tactical talks. But he had selected them, and it was his job to make them care.If the players are not motivated, then the coach has failed in one of his prime tasks - all the more so in the case of a national team, where the coach can choose whoever he wants. Pinto’s comments were nothing less than an admission of failure. They merely confirmed the rumours that he had lost the respect of the dressing room, and the Colombian FA moved quickly to end his reign."

    ON COLOMBIA'S RECENT YOUTH LEVEL SUCCESS AND THE CROP'S FUTURE
    "In recent times Colombia have produced some good Under-20 sides; they came third in the 2003 World Youth Cup, and were South American champions two years later. But the success of youth football is not counted in trophies, but in the number of players who go on to star at senior level....A fair few graduates from the 2003 and 2005 sides have indeed played for the full Colombia team. Yet not enough have made an impact big enough to move from the category of ‘promise’ to ‘reality.’
    For two games at least, this becomes the problem of the man who groomed them. Eduardo Lara, Colombia’s youth specialist, has been appointed to replace Pinto as senior coach for the coming World Cup qualifiers at home to Paraguay and away to Brazil, leader and second place in the table respectively.....They put resources into their youth sides. In 2003 they came third in the World Youth Cup. Two years later they were South American Under-20 champions. Many of these players have since graduated to the senior side. But very few of them have fulfilled their promise. Some have suffered the consequences of a premature move to Europe. Others have found it hard to deal with wealth and fame....There is the thoroughbred Radamel Falcao García of Argentine powerhouse River Plate, who has emerged over the past 18 months and looks set for global stardom. There is the strong, rangy Wason Rentería, impressive in both last month's matches. There is '05 hero Hugo Rodallega, a nippy, wiry attacker. And there is Dayro Moreno who, nowadays, is a taker of chances as well as someone who sets them up from the wing.."

    ON COLOMBIA'S CURRENT GOAL DROUGHT AND THE QUAILIFIERS TOP SCORER BOTERO OF BOLIVIA
    "At the halfway stage in South America's World Cup qualifiers the top scorer is Joaquin Botero of Bolivia...the first man on the continent to score five goals in the current campaign....This last achievement is all the more remarkable given that Botero was not even selected for the first few matches. But in three starts plus 25 minutes off the bench he has one more goal to his name than the entire Colombia team have managed in nine games"

    ON THE IMPROVEMENT OF COLOMBIA'S PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION
    "I'm writing this from the Colombian capital, where I've just come back from watching local heroes Millonarios cruise to a 3-0 victory over Deportivo Pereira.....It's almost seven years since I last went to a game in this city, the final of the 2001 Copa América when Colombia beat Mexico by a goal. That was a huge party, but this time I see that Bogotá now has something else to celebrate: an improvement in public transportation.....It consists of a system of elongated buses with special lanes, called the Transmilenio, and it includes a station right outside the El Campín stadium. The system got me from the city center to the ground quickly -- and to my surprise, was just as swift on the way back......Crowds tend to arrive at the stadium at staggered times before kickoff, and then leave all at once after the final whistle -- I had thought the Transmilenio would be unable to cope with the flow at the end of the game. But the organization was good, and I made it out quickly....This kind of system has proved successful in Curitiba, a relatively small Brazilian city, but a place as big as Bogotá needs a subway. A Transmilenio bus can carry a couple hundred passengers. A subway train can take more than 1,000.....My next stop on this little tour of Colombia will be Medellín, very proud to be the only city in the country that can boast a subway system -- with a station handy for the Atanasio Girardot stadium......Then comes Cali, where one of the city's big teams are about to make history. Deportivo Cali will soon open its own stadium -- incredibly enough, the first privately owned soccer ground in Colombia, where the stadiums are usually owned by the local authority. This will be a proud moment for a club that has a reputation for sound administration and, in the long-term at least, it should give it a financial boost......But first it will have to fill its new home -- which, of course, means people will have to be able to get there. The stadium is located way out of town. I have been to Cali a few times in recent years, and from what I recall its public transportation is far from adequate. After the initial euphoria wears off, making the trip out to the new stadium might try the patience of some of the club's supporters."

    ON CURRENT CHAMPIONS CHICO AND THE SUCCESS OF TINY CLUBS
    "Colombia has a new first-time champion, Boyacá Chicó. But has the tiny club from the mountain town of Tunja broken the mold, or is it part of a recurring pattern?....Chicó's opponent in the final was América of Cali. It was a final that few would have predicted. América is one of the heavyweights of the Colombian game, with 12 national titles to its name. In the 1980s, it was practically a Latin American Real Madrid, signing big-name players from all over the region. The club was bankrolled by the Cali cocaine cartel, which had turned it into their plaything.....Nowadays, América is paying for such links. The club is on the so-called "Clinton List," a register kept by the U.S. authorities of tainted institutions that are allowed no contact with the American financial system. América can't even have a bank account in its own country. Forced to put its faith in youth, it reached the final with a dynamic and occasionally unstable side......Founded in 2002, Chicó was first based in Colombia's capital, Bogotá. Lack of support forced the club to look for a more welcoming home, and it climbed higher up the Andes to Tunja, the capital of Boyacá department. Presided by former top player Eduardo Pimentel, what is new about Chicó is that it is the first Colombian club to be organized as a sociedad anonima -- a business where, as Pimentel stresses, "Everyone can come and invest. We're the most democratic club in the country. We're pioneering a new scheme in Colombian football. Our objective is in five or 10 years to have between 25,000 and 30,000 supporters who are partners in the club, carried out with an ambitious marketing plan......But is it the start of a new era? Or is Boyacá Chicó merely the latest in a line of small clubs to get five minutes in the sun?.....With the quantity of drug money in Colombian soccer greatly reduced, the clubs are poorer than they were, promising players are swiftly lured overseas and the overall level of the domestic game has fallen. And as has been seen all over South America, a leveling-down of standards gives the smaller clubs much more chance to shine......Colombia stages two separate championships a year. Three of the last six tournaments have produced first-time winners: Deportivo Pasto, Cúcuta and now Boyacá Chicó. The other three all featured first time finalists: Cartagena, Huila and La Equidad......It doesn't always prove easy for these little clubs to consolidate their success. Real Cartagena, for example, was runner-up in the second championship of '05 and has already slipped back to the second division. Will this be the fate of Boyacá Chicó?"

    ON COLOMBIA & URUGUAY VYING FOR THE FINAL WORLD CUP SLOT (again)
    "But come next October, when the competition reaches an end and the World Cup places are allocated, it could turn out this weekend's most significant fixture is the meeting in Bogotá between Colombia and Uruguay. In both previous qualification campaigns, there was a duel to the wire between these two countries for the last available place. In 2002 and '06 qualifying, the same four teams topped the table and bagged the automatic slots: Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador and Paraguay. Fifth place, which gave the team the chance of a two-legged playoff against a team from Oceania, came down to Colombia and Uruguay. Both times it went to the latter by the narrowest of margins. In the '02 series, the rivals finished with exactly the same record: seven wins, six draws and five defeats. Uruguay came out on top on goal difference by a solitary goal: plus-six, while Colombia was plus-five. Had the Colombians scored one more goal, the place would have been theirs -- they had scored more than the Uruguayans. It so nearly came. Right at the end of their last match, at Paraguay, a Colombian counterattack gave Tino Asprilla a terrific chance to score. His shot went just wide and Uruguay went to the playoff while Colombia watched on TV. Last time around, Colombia had a much superior goal difference, plus-eight against Uruguay's minus-five. The trouble that time was that Uruguay had one more point, with six wins, seven draws and five losses, while the Colombians had six of everything -- and were left sick of everything as well. Once more they had a wonderful opportunity to put their fate in their own hands. In the penultimate game, at home to Chile, Colombia was held to a surprising 1-1 draw. Near the final whistle, Juan Pablo Ángel had a clear run on goal. But his shot also went wide and Uruguay went to the playoff once more...... There has been a reshuffle, and the team from South America will now play off against opposition from CONCACAF -- and it isn't unthinkable that once again the battle to get there will be between Colombia and Uruguay.

    "ON COLOMBIAN SOCCER TODAY
    "Fourteen years on from the demise of Andres Escobar, Colombian society is much cleaner - and one of the consequences is that football is much poorer.....Recent years have seen a succession of tiny teams reach the final of the Colombian championship - a surefire signal of a general levelling down in standards, as the big clubs are unable to hold on to their top players...I keep waiting for Colombia to come good, but time after time they disappoint. Not since 1998 have they made it to the World Cup. They should be doing better....Outside Brazil they have the largest population in South America, they can count on a football crazy public and plenty of urban centres with well established teams. They are potentially the continent’s third major power, the one country outside Brazil and Argentina for which it is possible to imagine winning the World Cup one day."


  2. Tio Nicci

    Tio Nicci Member

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    Location:
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    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Country:
    Colombia
    awesome article. Any one read this? It is quite interesting.
  3. Baal88

    Baal88 Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Location:
    Medellin
    Club:
    Independiente Medellin
    Country:
    Colombia
    sizas... se oye muy lindo y todo pero... hasta q el el torneo colombiano (sobre todo los torneos juveniles y de ascenso en el pais) no sean organizados de una manera correcta el final de ese articulo solo seguira siendo un sueño...

    No hay muchos equipos q apoyen verdaderamente a los jovenes y les den las facilidades para estudiar y tener buenas bases para q no sean inmaduros y se pierdan jugando en ligas peores como la peruana y la ecuatoriana...

    tambien me parece q en colombia a los jovenes no se les da la oportunidad de madurar como personas... muchos son pelaos q juegan futbol para ayudar a su familia pero se conforman con tener un sueldo decente...
  4. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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    Location:
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    esta el caso del salario de Bobadilla vs salario del joven (22yrs) Jackson Martinez

    el portero se gana 21mil dolares al mes y el otro solo le alcanza para pagar una casita en el barrio mas pobre de medellin: Enciso!! No hay derecho....ahora lo llaman de cualquier equipito en europa y sale corriendo por los 2 o 3 mil dolares mas..... Pero la transaccion a los directivos!:eek:


  5. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Location:
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    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Pero cuando yo lo digo, todos brincan, no? El nivel de nuestro futbol ha bajado y tenemos potencial, pero no lo realizamos... Nuestro futbol se volvio ultradefensivo, el talento se va con la primera oferta en dolares..

    Sorprende la declaracion del Boliglio, que se mostro converso al credo de la ultradefensa en el ultimo semestre con el Santafue, dejando el talento en la banca y poniendo grandulones batalladores en el medio.
  6. Tio Nicci

    Tio Nicci Member

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    Houston, Texas
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Country:
    Colombia
    nuestra futbol se mejora, si nuestra economia mejora, ya tenemos todos listos, el talento, la experencia, los fanaticos, la cultura, y sabor. Solo esperemos por el dinero k sube el nivel de nuestra liga y equipos. No como los europeos pero pa los jugadores k puede compra una casa fuera del barrio.
  7. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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    el tema era para hablar de la seleccion colombia

    no del FPC y sus va o vienes.
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Ok efer.:rolleyes:
  9. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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    es que esto se volvio un sancocho..... que aunque un tema va de la mano del otro, estaba tratando de ordenar el caso.

    lo del salario de jugadores, era una respuesta al anterior comentario, a vos te gusta sacar de contesto a los demas para tu propia causa.
    todo vale en futbol!!!

    yo si tenia algo que decir a tu 'quest' del tema de iregularidad o males del FPC: de una lo deberia de decir en esta trenza: Yo creo que estas hablando de tu caso muy p[ersonal y como hincha del millos, esos y otros 4 si sion irregulares y bajan la media del FPC!!! Mire la tabla de reclasificacion y encuentra lo mas regular del torneo, luego mire los resultados de cuandrangulares finales y se lleva la razon a un nivel distinto.

    Irregulares y malos: millos- Once- Huila- quindio o bucaramanga y envigado y lo mas trsite el proximo rep a copa Libertadores el tal Chico boyaca.....
  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Que los campeones de los 3 ultimos torneos hayan sido eliminados a estas alturas, que dos equipos que peleaban descenso esten aun con posibilidades, que el Cali que se veia arrollador pierda con Pereira, que el America (sorry con los hinchas de la mechita) arrase en cuadrangulares solo para "chokearse" en la final.... Es tooooodo el campeonato el que es irregular, no solo los que quedaron por fuera.... Claro, a mi me duele la eliminacion de Millitos, pero si hay algun equipo con rendimiento parejo son los azules: Todos los campeonatos esta pidiendo resultados en la ultima fecha para ver si avanza a cuadrangulares :(

    Y en algo estamos de acuerdo, los dos temas van de la mano, FPC y seleccion Colombia. Realmente es muy dificil que pretendas poner un limite entre los dos. Esto es como pedirle a los borrachitos que no pasen de hablar de Miss Universo, al carro de sus sueños y luego a la politica. Como siempre cuando te jorobo un poquito te pones trascendental.
  11. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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    Jun 6, 1999
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    es que vos ves el vaso medio vacio
    yo lo veo medio lleno y mejorando!

    america y DIM lo mas regular del 2008
    Tolima no parece ser una sorpresa chica
    equidad esta en los dos grp de 8 de Colombia
    Pereira de la mano de DT y portero experimentado, infundaron mentalidad ganadora y cumplen ultimamente -
    el cali es cali....lo demas se inunda, eso es lo mejor en FPC

    los demas caen en tu 'tag' de eterna irregularidad, empezando por el axul -once y chico o Cucuta
  12. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Te voy a aceptar que estos cuadrangulares se ven mejores de lo que fue el torneo largo. Hay 4 - 5 equipos jugando a buen nivel y hasta ofensivo el futbol. Junior, Pereira se metieron la mano al dril por la afugia del descenso, pero hace 6 meses no valian un peso. Verdolagas y verdolagitos se desinflaron. El Cali se le acabo la gasolina antes de los cuadrangulares. Al DIM al principio del semestre, vos mismo dijiste que era el mismo equipo de media petaca del torneo anterior. Regulares el America y el Tolimita, de resto muchos que suben, muchos que bajan rendimiento.

    Pero a nivel interno es una cosa, a nivel internacional es otra. Quien va a ir a copas con Chico y Equidad :eek:, eternos grandes del FPC? America, DIM, Tolima? Les tengo fe a los rojillos, pero ahi es donde veremos realmente el nivel del campeonato local, que basado en el rendimiento en Libertadores/Sudamericana para el año 2008 es mediocre.
  13. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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    creo que decis que hay dos de rendimiento regular en el 2008: america y tolimita

    bueno de una u otra forma tenes que incluir al poderoso DIM y alekipo asegurador.....solo mire produccion de puntos en ambos torneos

    Yo meteria al boyaca...pero desgraciadamente se desinflo al otro dia de la final vs mechita en tunja de caneo. Santafe no se queda atras, pelio los dos campeonatos, el apertura con el DIM en la punta y el clausura con el tolimota en la misma punta......

    los demas valen vergacion chamo.....Dele tiempo al pereira y al Junior, o podes afirmar que lo de ellos es cosa de un torneo, solo tienen que mantener nominas y agregar un par de vatos, para ser parte de los top 5 del FPC.....

    notese que el millos- once y pasto o cucuta estan en el mismo saco! creo que es de esos 4 de los que vos hablas de iregularidad perenne!
  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    si miramos la reclasificacion tengo que aceptar que el DIM y America son los mas regulares..... La equidad viene bien ha estado en la pelea en los ultimos 3 torneos, tal vez el mas regular. Tolima me retracto, esta a 23 puntos de los lideres, lo cual quiere decir que el primer semestre fue pauperrimo, ya que fue el superlider del segundo.

    Santafue, Boyaca desinflados para el segundo torneo... irregulares... Santafe en ambos torneos arranco duro y termino pidiendo tiempo....

    Pero Junior y Pereira venian graves de puntos en el primer semestre, es decir, subieron su rendimiento, pero son irregulares. No sabemos como afrontaran el siguiente campeonato, puede que hagan lo que tu dices y se metan en finales, pero nada es seguro...

    Al contrario, Millos, Once son los equipos mas constantes, equipos que se sabe donde van a estar, peleando por el 8vo puesto en la ultima fecha y pidiendo milagros.:(

    Cucuta y Pasto vienen de capa caida en los dos ultimos torneos, pero tambien son cuota de irregularidad, hace cuanto fueron campeones y fueron a libertadores los dos? dos años?
  15. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

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  16. JPAcolombia9

    JPAcolombia9 Member

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    Re: Como hablan de nuestra seleccion Colombia:VALDANO

    ta bno el articulo pero aun sigo creyendo que se le tiene que dar la oportunidad a Martino o Hiddink :p:rolleyes:
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Re: Como hablan de nuestra seleccion Colombia:VALDANO

    Es hora de salir de ese circulo vicioso.. Necesitamos un entrenador extranjero no solo para la seleccion, sino para que actualize al FPC... Lo demas vendra como consecuencia..
  18. pipevasquez

    pipevasquez Member+

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    Donde llegue un extrajero y fracase (Erickson Mexico) a más de un cualquiera de esta joda le da un infarto
  19. dapip

    dapip Member+

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    Bueno, nos daremos cuenta entonces que el problema no era ni la federacion ni los tecnicos....:rolleyes:
  20. pipevasquez

    pipevasquez Member+

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    La cuestión es que el DT tiene que ser preparado, entender y conocer el fútbol local y conocer a los jugadores que estan afuera. Aqui le nombran a cualquier argentino, uruguayo, brasilero o europeo y se exitan desaforadamente
  21. JPAcolombia9

    JPAcolombia9 Member

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    Oct 27, 2006
    El unico dt local que veo que sea capaz es Osorio..

    No es que me "exite" tener un DT extranjero sino que NUNCA se ha probado. Pa que seguir con la misma formula si se sabe que va a fracasar? Es hora de tomar una direccion distinta con un DT que ya sepa como se juegan las eiliminatorias.
  22. pipevasquez

    pipevasquez Member+

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    El punto al que voy es que por el hecho de ser extranjero no lo hace mejor. Si este no tiene la experiencia. en eliminatorias o en titulos a nivel de club.
  23. HijodelAB

    HijodelAB Member

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    EXATAMENTE
    jajajaja :D
  24. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator Staff Member

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    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Country:
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    esto.
  25. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

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    parece que volvera el bolillo...

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