Democratic Failure Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by MasterShake29, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    What is wrong with you? I’ve given you plenty of examples:

    1. I wouldn’t have burdened business with massive new regulations and requirements
    2. I’d have gotten a budget through Congress
    3. Any stimulus would have to meet the Keynesian criteria
    4. I wouldn’t demagogue the free market system

    Want more?

    1. I wouldn’t have created doubt in the system by circumventing the bankruptcy process when bailing out the auto industry.
    2. I consider reinstating Glass-Steagall
    3. I’d have vetoed Dodd-Frank

    But mostly I’d address the American people directly and show some actual leadership rather than point fingers in every possible direction. But then I’m not President and I didn’t run for the office knowing I was woefully unqualified.


  2. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Actually, I would rather we see an economic recovery. Believe it or not I actually live in the real world and prolonged recession is painful for my personal finances.

    And Give me some credit, I am willing to admit his policies are stifling a recovery. If you want to pretend we're in not in historically piss poor recovery so be it.
  3. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    You're suggesting Obama has spawned another Great Depression? That's a bit harsh.
  4. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    I'm curious. Please name these massive new regs & requirements.


  5. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    ObamaCare and Dodd&Frank. Please try to keep up.
  6. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

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    What new regulations and requirements do you speak of?
  7. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    Sorry, I don't typically pay much attention to your posts, other than for mild entertainment value.

    Those aren't typically the "regulations" & "requirements" that Libertascists around here usually rail about. But I get why you're against these.
  8. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Again: ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank.
  9. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

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    What's bad about the Dodd-Frank bill? Doesn't it force corporations to be more transparent and accountable?
  10. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

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    So health care regulations that would take affect in 2014 stifled economic growth in 2010?

    Beeeeecaaaauuuuse businesses aren't expanding to reach clients that simply don't have money to purchase anything anyway. Got it.

    Trickle down economics. Got it. B/c it's ... like... sooooooo successful.



    Ok, let me break it down for you real slow:

    Put money in consumers' hands, and a good business will find a way to attract them as a customer.

    One of the main problems in this millenium is that pretty much the only industry that has shown consistent growth is the health industry. Quite easy to do since they're gauging customers.

    Average income from 2001-2007 declined for the first time in history, and wages have remained stagnant since then. Why? Not b/c there wasn't enough $$$ to go around, but our raises were eaten up by health insurance. Which Bush Jr. did NOTHING to address.

    So Obama has done something to address that. To put money back in the hands of consumers.

    When consumers have money, they'll spend it. And then we're going to see impressive growth b/c industry is sitting on a shitload of cash.
  11. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

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    1. It's pretty toothless
    2. The banks and Wall Street ... you know... the pricks that got us in this mess, don't want any restrictions on them b/c they made out like bandits the last decade. And despite the fact that so many companies collapsed or nearly collapsed, I'm told by friends in these industries that NOTHING has changed, that they've already gone back to doing the exact same shit that got them and us in trouble.

    So for anybody to say that Dodd-Frank is somehow crippling anybody is just f*cking ridiculous, ignorant and partisan.
  12. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

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    Your point was that the stimulus was a failure. You were proven wrong. Sorry.

    And since this whole debacle was started during the Bush administration, I'm willing to give Obama credit even if he wasn't able to magically snap his fingers and erase all of the problems he inherited.

    So again, Fish: what would you have done differently? Exactly? What policies should have been instituted that would have created a recovery in 2 short years? Take as much time as you need.
  13. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    It doesn't fix the problem it was desigmed to fix - banks that are too big to fail.
  14. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    I'd fire Austin Gooslbee. He is an embarrassment. Then I'd dance naked in the streets.
  15. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    I have taken the liberty of removing what you told me you would not do, something that has been stated in this exercise three times now and has apparently thus far escaped your reading capabilities. It will be here a fourth time: I don't care what you would NOT do. I would care what you would do, if you would only write it.

    So what you would do is pass a budget and maybe reinstate Glass-Steagall. This is all you would do differently than Obama. Interestingly, Obama did pass a budget in 2009, so that doesn't really count as "different." So your plan to be different than Obama would be to possibly consider reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act.

    Now seriously - what would you do differently?
  16. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Shirley you jest.

    Let me turn the table. Given how ineffective the Obama policiies have been, what would you have done differently?
  17. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    I would have pushed for an $800-$1 trillion dollar stimulus. I would have passed health care reform without a public option in the summer of 2009. I would have moved to pass a comprehensive overhaul of NCLB and a carbon-swap scheme soon after, possibly late 2009 or early 2010 - even if they didn't clear Congress. My carbon-swap scheme would have resembled cap-and-trade but would have slowly increased the taxes over a period of twenty years. I would have proposed a specific amnesty bill and urged the Senate to vote on it time and again. I would have issued an executive order to close Gitmo within two years, and have held accelerated military/civilian trials so that every prisoner was sentenced and/or released by now. I would have, in the 2010 lame duck session, gotten a two-year debt ceiling extension in return for a third year of the Bush tax cuts to avoid this permanent mess. I would have urged Democrats in Congress more strongly to pass a 2010 budget. I would have asked Ruth Bader Ginsberg to retire from the SCOTUS and picked a replacement of her choice. I would have passed the free-trade deals to Panama, South Korea, and Colombia in the lame-duck session in exchange for concessions from Republicans on tax increases.

    Aside from that, there's very little I could have done differently. After all, Obama did get 85% of what Democrats wanted.

    Now, I'd like to see you put forward some specifics. What things would you have done differently?
  18. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Great, you would have pushed a teetering economy into a full fledged depression. Happy days are here again.
  19. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    That is all well and good, but what specific proposals would you have done if you were elected President in 2008 and took office on 1/20/2009?
  20. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

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    That would not meet the definition of Keynsian stimulus either...
  21. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

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    I think this was quite a fitting ending to what has been perhaps the most thoroughly, embarrassingly, one sided 'debate'.

    Jesus, you really made a fool of yourself here. I'm not even getting a laugh from this, it's actually painful to watch at this point.
  22. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    I always enjoy it when somebody just cannot wrap their head around how brain-dead Republican politics have become. VFish was a stunning case study in how the GOP can only reflexively oppose. You see it in their arguments, plain as day. All he had to do was tell me what direction he saw the country; acceptable arguments would have been:

    1) Gut the regulatory scheme
    2) Abolish the EPA
    3) Devolve spending powers to the states
    4) Pass a balanced-budget amendment

    So on and so forth. But even here, the GOP sees these as secondary to stopping Obama. Even during the darkness of 2003 and 2004, there were liberals arguing for different approaches, not just opposing the President. Now it's just screen-saver mode for the 46% of the country that won't ever vote for a Democrat/African-American.
  23. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

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    ...and so begins the countdown to VFish claiming some of these 'ideas' as his own, as he will claim to have espoused in his posts above.

    Which thus also begins the countdown to a very wide geographical spread of laughter over the course of the next few days, as different P&CE regulars click onto this thread and remain unfooled.
  24. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

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    Wow. Great response. You should run for Congress. You'd fit right in with the GOP/Tea Party caucus.
  25. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator Staff Member

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