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Dual Nationality

Discussion in 'Caribbean' started by Raj-G, Dec 13, 2009.

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  1. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    A few months ago I was also thinking this, but I didn't understand the FIFA statue to get it clear.

    In these FIFA documents you can read something about "nationality":
    Page 30 - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/06/30/78/statusinhalt_en_122007.pdf
    Page 64 - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf

    Here you can find more documents if you want to start a investigation ;) http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/documentlibrary/index.html
     


  2. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    The rule (article 15 & 16) in the FIFA statue was not applicable for Suriname. On 2 July 2010 I got an explanation from the FIFA:

    In order for a player to be eligible to play for the representative teams of a specific association, he must in any case hold the permanent nationality of that country. In particular, the nationality may not be dependent on residence in that country (cf. art. 15 par. 1 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes, hereinafter: the Regulations). This is the fundamental prerequisite. In short, without nationality, no eligibility.

    All other pertinent provisions (i.e. art. 15 par. 2, 16, 17 and 18 of the Regulations) come in addition to the aforementioned essential principle.

    As regards art. 16 of the Regulations, it is in any case not applicable to the Surinaamse Voetbal Bond, since it concerns only associations, the "nationality" of which is "shared" with other associations (e.g. British; French etc.). In other words, art. 16 of the Regulations concerns only the eligibility of players whose sole nationality would in principle entitle them to represent more than one association (cf. title of the article: "Nationality entitling players to represent more than one Association", emphasis added). Since Surinam has its own independent nationality (Surinamese nationality) this constellation is not conceivable. In particular not with respect to players who hold only the Dutch nationality (the Surinaamse Voetbal Bond and the Koninklijke Nederlandse Voetbalbond do not “share” the same “nationality”).
     
  3. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    Just recently I sent a new possibility to Suriname Football Association. With this possibility it could be achievable that Suriname can use the Surinamese players abroad who don't have a Surinam passport. It's about a provision in the constitution which gives Surinamese abroad a "special status" whereby they must be treated like every Suriname citizen.

    The Suriname FA liked the plan! They got the constitution translated and sent it to the FIFA. It's a legal case so FIFA will need many documents to investigate. So there is a chance that Suriname in 2011 will play with European professionals.

    Some 'big' names of Suripro's are: Marvin Emnes (Middlesbrough FC), Royston Drenthe (Real Madrid CF) (He only played one friendly with the Dutch squad), Ryan Donk (Club Brugge) & Gianni Zuiverloon (West Bromwich Albion FC).
     
  4. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

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    Didn't that Zuiverloon play for Holland during the 2008 olympics ?
     


  5. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    Olympics don't count as a Full International Cap. counts as a U-23 Cap.
     
  6. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

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    A rule which should be abolished. IMO once you represent any sanctioned national side that's who you should be with at all age levels.
     
  7. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    why??? You should have the choice to represent either A or B. after all its YOUR decision.
     
  8. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

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    One thing on dual citizenship and voting.

    Dual citizen have to pick where they want to vote, they can't vote in both elections.

    People living abroad with dual citizenship tend to want to vote where they are living in most circumstances, because, after all, they live there. Not all, to be sure, but most for certain.
     
  9. Taly

    Taly Member

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    I am rooting for the Suriname government to pass legislation to allow dual citizens to play for Suriname, so your national team can have an exciting World Cup campaign.
     
  10. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    Can someone tell me why some players born in France but from Haitian parents, can play for the national team of Haïti? Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought Haïti did not allow dual citizenship.
     
  11. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    I already have an answer from the Fédération Haïtienne de Football: "If the players can prove tie with Haitian Descendants (Passport, Birth Cirtificates) the Haitian government usually do an exception for athletes."
     
  12. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    Guys I need your help! The government in Suriname doubt if the introduction of dual nationality contributes to the local sports development. I want to know what the experiences are in countries like Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago, Haiti etc. and how the eligibility of players abroad helped the country.

    As you may know Suriname has around 170 professional players in Europe. With those players Suriname could be a strong opponent in CONCACAF:
    Goalkeepers - http://natiosuriname.blogspot.com/2009/11/inventarisatie-suriprof-keepers.html
    Defenders - http://natiosuriname.blogspot.com/2009/11/inventarisatie-suriprof-verdedigers.html
    Midfielders - http://natiosuriname.blogspot.com/2009/12/inventarisatie-suriprof-middenvelders.html
    Strikers - http://natiosuriname.blogspot.com/2009/12/inventarisatie-suriprof-aanvallers.html

    So I need some arguments...
     
  13. theworm2345

    theworm2345 Member

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    All you need to do is look at the Qualifying campaigns for Jamaica and T&T in which they made the World Cup.

    Through the first five matches of the final round of qualifying for WC98 (before the English players came) this is what the table looked like:

    Mexico...11
    Costa Rica...7
    USA...6
    El Salvador...5 (0 GD)
    Canada...5 (-6 GD)
    Jamaica...5 (-7 GD)

    There were 5 matches left to play and they brought in English-born players such as Deon Burton, Fitzroy Simpson, Robbie Earle, Paul Hall, etc...none of whom had played for Jamaica before. In the next 5 matches Jamaica scored 5 goals...4 from Burton and 1 from Hall, and of course qualified for the World Cup. They brought in more after that like Darryl Powell, Frank Sinclair, Marcus Gayle, etc. to help at the World Cup.

    There have been fewer English-born players for T&T but of course Chris Birchall scored for them in the first leg of their playoff for WC06 against Bahrain and was (still is) an important player for them.

    Currently, look what bringing in English-born players has done for Antigua and Barbuda...the have gone the farther in qualifying that they ever have and it is no coincidence that they all of the sudden have quite a few English-born players (Leigertwood, Cochrane, Murtagh, McCoy, Joseph, Parker)

    For Haiti, I don't think we have seen them reach their potential yet with their French-born players.

    On a smaller scale though, Aruba have brough in several Dutch-born players and went from bottom of the FIFA rankings in 2008 to 164 (above Barbados even)

    You can basically equate English-born to dual nationality as I'm sure they all have it.
     
  14. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

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    Off topic but the only link Birchall has to T&T is that his grandmother was born in Port of Spain
     
  15. theworm2345

    theworm2345 Member

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    His mother, he wouldn't be eligible if it was his grandmother as T&T only give passports out if you have a parent born there (unlike, say, Ireland, who have the granny rule).

    You say the "only link" as if he's not really Trinbagonian but I think you'd find the Trinis have accepted him whole heartedly...he gives everything on the pitch for them and even knows the anthem. Sometimes people eligible through their parents (or grandparents) are far more dedicated than people actually born there (again using Ireland, compare Kevin Kilbane to that baldy twat Stephen Ireland).
     
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  16. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

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    Sorry, my apologies

    Looked it up on the internet and you are right: his mother was born there because her parents spent some time working in T&T

    But I have absolutely no problem with him playing for the Soca Warriors,

    Is Zinha a real mexican ? Is Chandler a real american ? Is Thiago a real spaniard ? Is Boateng a real german ?

    If Fifa allows it, I am OK with it
     
  17. siebenw

    siebenw Member

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    Of course Jerome Boateng is a real German
    - he is german by blood (through his ethnic German mother)
    - he is born in Germany
    - he spent all his life and football career in Germany (besides playing one year with Manchester City)
     
  18. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

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    okey, and does that make his brother a real ghanain ?
     
  19. Raj-G

    Raj-G New Member

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    Okay, so introducing Dual Nationality contributes to better results in matches. But does it effect local football in those countries? For example: better league, players getting quality training, skills of local players increase etc.
     
  20. theworm2345

    theworm2345 Member

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    Maybe not directly. The top local players who play with these guys would obviously some benefit but I don't see how they would effect the local league directly. However, obviously qualifying (and thus getting money, whether that be via the Caribbean Cup or whatever) for something like the Gold Cup, World Cup, or even getting some of the ticket money from an away match in Mexico or some place like that could be a huge boost to these small federations who could then afford to send teams more place. Furthermore the further up your FIFA ranking goes the more likely you are to get a quality friendly and the easier it becomes to get a work permit in a place like England. Any exposure the team could get on the world stage would be beneficial. Players with dual citizenship could also spot local talent and try to get them opportunities at their clubs or with people they know. Also, obviously if, for example, a Surinamese player has to give up his Surinamese citizenship to play in Holland, he is probably less likely to return at the end of his career in Holland to play in Suriname as I don't think he'd be able to work there (or would at least have to get a work permit without citizenship).

    I know one example where it has benefitted the local leagues is in Antigua as I know one of their players who got dual nationality, Justin Cochrane, spent time playing for Antigua Barracuda and also did some coaching in Antigua, though he could've done this I suppose even without citizenship.
     
  21. Makandal

    Makandal Member

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    Apparently not since after deciding to play for Ghana in the WC to stick it to his german coach, he now has decided to retire from international football. In other words, he just wanted the experience of going to the world cup, but not the grueling fight of getting there with Ghana.
     
  22. Makandal

    Makandal Member

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    For footballing reasons, I don't think your country needs to pass a law that accept dual nationality for a player to be eligible to play for that country. Haiti is an example of a country where dual nationality is not allowed and we have had players of haitian heritage playing for the national team. It is my understanding that those players retain their french or american passport (citizenship) but represent Haiti based on FIFA rules.
     
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