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Dumbing down your refereeing (NFHS)?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by aek chicago, Aug 23, 2012.

Moderators: IASocFan, MassachusettsRef
  1. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Real life scenario.

    CR in a hs match thats already 5-0 for home team. Home springs a quick counter from around midfield and their attacker goes in all alone on the opposing keeper. I sense a potential problem and get there (8-10 yds away) asap....when the keeper knocks the attacker off the ball (100% foul) about five yards into the penalty area just above the penalty spot. I see a trailing home attacker running on to the play wide left as the ball squirts out towards him and I think to myself "ok, if he bangs it in I'll save myself the dogos red." Of course, no such luck so I blow the whistle, point to the spot...and SLOOOOWLY walk towards the keeper looking to see if theres any other teammate of his is close by so I can avoid the send off. No such luck. The closest defender is still about five yards behind me. I replay all four D's in my mind and can't find an "out" anywhere...not even close. So I show the red card. The keeper goes off without a peep, none of the players say anything, but I see the visiting coach going ballistic on the touchline. I run over and tell him its a dogso red and he's still furious. I try to explain the dogso to him and he tells me "Ive never heard such a rule". By now I'm thinking either a) this guy is messing with me, or b) he really doesn't have a clue.

    The following exchange then occurs:

    Me: you agree its a foul?

    Coach: Yes

    Me: You agree its a pk?

    Coach: Yes

    Me: You agree your keeper was the last man?

    Coach: Yes

    Me: And you still don't know why I gave him a red card?

    Coach: Yes, thats correct.

    I shake my head, tell him my decision is final, his player has been sent off and we're restarting with a pk. He's still ranting and raving as I run back to the play. I'm chuckling inside of me. Three of the players on the home team I recognize as refs are all laughing as well and shaking their heads.

    Game ends, the coach is still furious and one of his fans "confronts" me about the call. I tell him its a dogso and walk to my car.

    I don't think anything else of it...basically another clueless hs coach.

    Two days later I'm doing a match in a neighboring town and my ars heard about that match as well, telling me the hs coach is complaining to anyone he can find. It appears this has become the talk of the town, so to speak.

    My question is, what would the repercussions have been had I "eaten" the red card, should have I kept it in my back pocket, and what should I do about this coach?

    Mind you, his argument wasn't that I shouldn't have given the card given the score of the game but rather that such a rule DOES NOT EXIST.

    Is this a case where you have to dumb things down and find a creative solution?

    I seriously thought about not giving a card at all, but knowing the "soccer landscape" in this particular area, I decided to give it so that no "smart aleck couch ref expert" could later claim I didn't recognize a dogso.

    Nonetheless, my question is what to do with such a blatantly ignorant, yet insistent, coach...who also "rates" you.
     


  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Stipulation that I don't do NFHS, so I'm not going to offer advice. But I have read your post and I'm confused.

    You don't learn just how ignorant the coach is until after you've given the red card, correct? So then how could you have done anything differently or "eaten" the red based on his ignorance? You "seriously thought about not giving the card at all," but I presume that was because of the scoreline and not the coach. How could you know to be looking for a "creative solution" based on the coach if you don't learn about the coach until you give the red card? The timeline seems to make your question moot.
     
  3. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    I had a similar incident a couple of weeks ago in an adult 11 v 11 summer league. Breakaway, last defender foul, blow whistle, show red card, restart with a PK. The offending team is going nuts because "it's a summer league game" and I have violated the "spirit of the game" by sending the player off.
     
  4. grasskamper

    grasskamper Member

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    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    AEK:
    If you were in one of those "lucky" states that practice the three whistle thing you would have been saved. As I imagine it, at the time the opportunity for advantage evaporated and dogso was called, there would have been two very sharp, distinct and syncronized whistle sounds (yours and your "partner" on the line!) Problem solved--the affirmation of the second whistle and the two red cards (yours and your partner's! syncronized , of course like a good ballet), would be sufficient, irrefutable evidence to the coach that not only was the call correct but the send-off/dismissal as well. Sometimes the games just needs more whistles and cards!!:D

    The answer to your questions: "NO" IMO
     
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  5. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

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    Dunno.
    But I don't think it's unique to NFHS.
    I had almost the exact same scenario and discussion with a U16B "Premier" club coach last year.

    Say WHAT?!?!? :eek:
     
  6. refmedic

    refmedic Member

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    Sep 22, 2008
    And isn't it ironic that the defender violated the LAWS of the game by committing the DOGSO foul?
     
    Chas (Psyatika) and La Rikardo repped this.
  7. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member

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    I think I've had a total of 6 or 7 DOGSO cards in my career and only 2 of those had a coach who had heard of it before and those were both the second DOGSO card given in their respective matches.

    The only way they are going to learn is to have it happen to them.
     
  8. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member

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    In Ohio, varsity coaches are fined if they don't rate every referee they have during the season.
     
  9. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Member+

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    Are referees required to rate coaches' tactical decisions during the game?
     
    CKRef22 repped this.
  10. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

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    In all sports?
     
  11. bainsey

    bainsey Member

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    In other words, you didn't want to be accused of not doing your job.

    You did your job. How does a coach's ignorance play into this?
     
  12. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

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    I tend to agree AEK. There is not much you can do in this situation. You tried to find a scapegoat because of the score but no such luck. It's one of those where you just say "Oh sh*t" and feel bad for the keeper. It seems like he (gk) understood what was happening; sometimes you just get coaches who are idiots or are looking for any excuse to blame a poor performance on. You tried to uphold the Spirit but when you can't you have to fall to the LOTG and they say DOGSO.
     
  13. Law5

    Law5 Member+

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    I once 'ate' the DOGSO card (poor decision, too, essentially gave an advantage to the attackers for a quick restart, but they missed their shot on a 1,000% open goal. :() and the attackers' coach complained. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, so just do the right thing. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."
     
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  14. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member

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    Too bad one of those player/refs wasn't from the visiting team. Then you could have quietly asked them to explain the call to the coach at a later time. At their own peril, of course.
     
    BlackBart repped this.
  15. iron81

    iron81 Member+

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    Coaches are supposed to rate referees in my youth USSF league. I don't know if it actually happens, but in the book they don't get credit for the game played until they do.

    The same league invites people to "Please contact your referee assignor with questions and comments about your referee." and provides e-mail addresses and phone numbers on the website.
     
  16. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

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    "Hello ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Yikes Stadium. I'm Bubba, and I'll be serving as your referee today. Please don't hesitate to let me know if there's anything I can do to make your experience more enjoyable."
     
    Law5 repped this.
  17. Referee_Irl

    Referee_Irl Member

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    On this point.
    If the attacking team had an opportunity to score the goal and flopped the shot then the advantage has technically passed.
    Had a FAI National league referee who was watching a Schoolboy match where I applied the same scenario where I brought it back for the PK after the attacker missed the shot. He commented that It was right that it was originally a PK but giving that I let the advantage go that I shouldn't have called it back.
    My rule of thumb is to never play advantage in the "Box" but sometimes I have to ignore this rule if it blisteringly obvious that a goal is to be scored.
     
  18. aek chicago

    aek chicago Member

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    I waited no more than a second or two and the second attacker didn't "miss" the opportunity, the advantage never materialized.
     
  19. iron81

    iron81 Member+

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    Also we apparently have different instructions on this in the USA..
     
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  20. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member

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    Right. As covered here before, in the US the only time the advantage is considered realized on a foul in the PA is when a goal is scored. Otherwise it is back to the foul and the PK.
     
  21. John F.

    John F. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2012
    Your thought process was correct, and there is no doubt the coach is making a fool of himself to anyone who actually is familiar with the rules.

    In cases like this, I usually find its helpful to reference the rules. I try to avoid saying things as its my decision and I'm not going to change it. I would have said something along the lines of, "I'm required to send him off for DOGSO, coach. I hate to disqualify players, but Rule 12 of the NFHS rule book is very specific that its a mandatory red card."

    That kind of statement turns it from a "my decision" to "I've got to follow the rule book." That doesn't turn off any of the anger, but it at least should (lol, a big assumption) get the coach and others nearby thinking.
     
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  22. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member

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    I'm not sure. I know it's true for soccer and I suspect it's true for football and I have no clue otherwise.
     
  23. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

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    You did the right thing sending the keeper off for DOGSO. You would be wrong to placate the mistaken coach. To quote Forrest Gump, Stupid is as stupid does. Coach needs to learn the laws of the game. Amazing someone could be coaching for quite sometime and they fail to learn the laws.
     
  24. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member

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    What he said.



    It's HS. They are rules, not laws.

    And again, it's HS. Coaches are educators that often knew nothing of soccer until their AD asked them to coach. Does that excuse stupid behavior? No.

    Those that know nothing should just sit down, shut up, and watch the game. But of course that's never going to happen.
     
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  25. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

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    That of course is the problem with high school and college soccer. They need to come to the USSF fold and forego this foolishness. ;)
     
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