End of collective bargaining/other anti-union measures plus reactions ...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. purojogo

    purojogo Member

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    If this is going to become the standard of what it means to be a politician from a certain stripe attempting to justify their actions rightly behind the financial crisis and/or budget shortages..or perhaps use them as the perfect smoke screen from which to do what they have wished to do all along.......
    We might as well also keep score of those who are directly affected by such measures.... workers... So yeah, this is a commie pinko liberal thread....therefore OPEN to all....

    Thousands protest anti-union bill in Wisconsin

    Thousands of teachers, students and prison guards descended on the Wisconsin Capitol on Wednesday to fight a move to strip government workers of union rights in the first state to grant them more than a half-century ago, but Republican leaders said the changes they sought would not be made.

    The Statehouse filled with as many as 10,000 demonstrators who chanted, sang the national anthem and beat drums for hours in demonstrations unlike any seen in Madison in decades. The noise in the rotunda rose to the level of a chainsaw, and many Madison teachers joined the protest by calling in sick in such numbers that the district -- the state's second-largest -- had to cancel classes.
    ......


  2. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    http://www.channel3000.com/news/26893573/detail.html

    "The protesters are taking issue with Walker's budget repair plan, which he presented last week. The governor said besides removing workers' collective bargaining rights, except when negotiating salary, state employees need to pay more for health care benefits and their pensions. Local firefighters, such as local police and members of the Wisconsin State Patrol, are exempt in the bill.

    The governor said that the moves are necessary to better contend with the state's fiscal problems and he can't negotiate with the unions since the state has nothing to offer. The bill's supporters said public workers must make sacrifices to help balance the state's budget. The state has a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall."

    Which, of course, leads to Madison having to cancel school because 40% of teachers called in sick. All in the best interest of the students, of course.

    This video details some of the inflammatory language used by the protesters.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=71gsnLfsbbM
  3. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    how did you beat me? It wasn't there when I posted mine? Arrrggghhh
  4. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Why is this? Seriously? If the excuse for this is that the state is broke, then why are these unions exempt?


  5. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    Don't you think expenditures on employees is one of the biggest items in a state budget and therefore would need to be addressed to meet the budget shortfall?
  6. purojogo

    purojogo Member

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    you know how lazy we liberals are so more free time... more time to post threads on BS... :D but seriously, this is going to become a huge issue due to its like ripple effects on the rest of the nation.... Christie in NJ already is doing all he can to destroy any semblance of teacher's union benefits..... You can see on tv who some networks are aligning themselves with.... Ditto with radio.....anyway can we all just get along? It seems that unfortunately in Wisconsin they are way past that point....
  7. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    I don't know what its like in Wisconsin, but in Missouri teachers typically make much more money than policepersons.
  8. purojogo

    purojogo Member

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    one thing is something like negotiating pay freezes or something similar as a concession in tough economic times... what they are trying to do here goes way beyond that....
    Of course, the "class warfare" Reeps love to talk about so much, has in my honest assessment for the past 20-30 years been waged on this nation's middle class....and this is one further step in that direction....and arguably teachers and others (like prison guards) are not even " middle class" in the highest earning sense of the word (ie within middle class America)...
  9. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    So, you are looking to re-distribute wealth? ;)

    It shouldn't matter. If the state is broke and you need to hit the unions then it should be all unions.

    Nevermind . . .

    From the campaign:

    The Milwaukee Police Association and the Firefighters union throw their support behind Scott Walker in his latest political ad.

    http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-102010-open-sky,0,7341989.story

    More political bullshit.
  10. Knave

    Knave Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    I believe all those unions endorsed Walker during the election.
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin


    Do you have a link for this? Because that's not how it was anywhere I've lived.
  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Perhaps base salary, but when overtime (which every cop gets) adds up really quick. And then when you get toward your last three years before retirement (the final three determine pension), then the OT really gets out of control.
  13. WarrenWallace

    WarrenWallace Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Follow the action:
    http://host.madison.com/

    Lots of schools closed today, not just Madison.

    The state's largest teachers union Wednesday night called on all 98,000 of its members to attend rallies in Madison Thursday and Friday, which led to multiple school districts — including Madison — canceling classes for Thursday.
  14. marek

    marek Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    not just teachers...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cufj2d8Co5A"]YouTube - Wisc. High School Teachers Bring Students to Protest[/ame]
  15. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    I just know it's like that here in the area I live. The local girls PE teacher at the middle school is married to the detective for the Sheriff's department. She makes in the 40s (has a masters degree, though) and her husband makes in the upper 20's)

    It might be different in areas of the state where teachers aren't paid as much. There might be a bigger difference in KC where they have their own education employee union. I'm just speaking from my own personal experience. It may not necessarily translate state wide, but my feeling is that it does.
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Say what? In my town, the starting salary Day 1 for a policeman (never mind detective) is higher than the salary for a middle-school teacher who has a Master's Degree and 10 years' experience.

    I'm quite sure it's like that pretty much anywhere in the U.S.
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Well in truth it was waged on the poor, although the middle class has received some shrapnel.
  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

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    Collateral damage.
  19. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    It's hard to find definitive numbers. One link I found said teachers have an average salary in missouri of 47k and law enforcement have an average salary of 52k state wide. It doesn't that I can tell, differentiate between Administrators and teachers (whether they all average in together which would skew it higher).

    http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/missouri.html

    http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Police-Officer-l-Missouri.html

    I don't know how reliable this links are.

    It's probably different in my area. I live in a rural area, but a large school district, that has more paying power than what the local sheriff's department and city does.
  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    I did a quick search in WI. The average teacher salary in the state is $49,000. The average police salary is $42,000. But the exemptions appear to be pure politics.
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    male unions vs. female unions
  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Well, if the state was concerned about the students, they would have exempted the teachers as well.

    Around here, they are fairly equal. Starting Memphis PD is 39k, starting Memphis City School is 40k, though in "striving schools" which means under performing, pay is about 43k. And around here, there is a lot of support for schools and not nearly as much for Police.

    Thanks for stereotyping, jackass. In elementary, I had all female teachers, yes. But from the time I entered Junior High School, I had 10 female teachers in seven years, 6 to 7 periods a day, two semesters a year. That would be about 74 males to 10 females.

    Further, my uncle worked in a NW Wisconsin school district for several years and was the union representative, and always indicated in his high school it was fairly even or weighted toward males in terms of persons teaching. In the high school I taught in Arizona, it was very much 50/50.

    (And I don't care to pull the actual numbers for such a stupid remark that I've wasted too much time responding to.)
  23. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    You might be surprised to hear how many "disorderly conduct" type arrests -- necessatating hours of paperwork -- occur at the end of shifts.
  24. wallacegrommit

    wallacegrommit Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Taxpayers in my city are very angry about the generous police and firefighter pensions in their union contracts. It has become one of the bigger political issues in local races.
  25. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

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    Re: Public Unions vs. the state of Wisconsin

    Again, that police number won't take overtime into account.

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