England-Netherlands 10-08-2011 [R]

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    [​IMG]


    VS


    [​IMG]

    Wednesday, 10/08/2011
    Kick off 20:00 BST at Wembley Stadium​

    http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=eng/team2=ned/index.html

    Men's 'A' Matches

    England vs Netherlands

    5.........W..................4
    9..........D..................9
    26........GS...............21




    preliminary selection England:

    To be announced

    preliminary selection Netherlands:


    Doel: Tim Krul (Newcastle United), Maarten Stekelenburg (Ajax), Michel Vorm (FC Utrecht).

    Verdediging: Khalid Boulahrouz (VfB Stuttgart), Edson Braafheid (Hoffenheim), Jeffrey Bruma (HSV), John Heitinga (Everton), Hedwiges Maduro (Valencia), Joris Mathijsen (Malaga), Erik Pieters (PSV), Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord), Gregory van der Wiel (Ajax).

    Middenveld: Mark van Bommel (AC Milan), Theo Janssen (Ajax), Nigel de Jong (Manchester City), Stijn Schaars (Sporting), Wesley Sneijder (Inter), Kevin Strootman (PSV), Rafael van der Vaart (Tottenham Hotspur), Ibrahim Afellay (FC Barcelona).

    Aanval: Eljero Elia (HSV), Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04), Luuk de Jong (FC Twente), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Arjen Robben (Bayern München),


    Most painfull losses the Dutch suffered at the hands of the English:

    The 8-2 defeat at Huddersfield in 1946

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADm2_TiNZKA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADm2_TiNZKA[/ame]

    A game after WW 2 where the Dutch amateurs could measure themselves against the English pro's with the great mid fore, Tommy Lawton in their ranks. Tommy who was just transferred for a record braking sum of 17000 pounds. Big money for that timeperiod. It was a very important game for us Dutch. England was the gold standard at the time and we were showed what was necessary to become a modern football nation. We realized we had to modernize after that defeat and did that in 3 ways:

    1. Appointed Jesse Carver (trainer from Xerxes) as national coach. After Karel Kaufman and Otto Bonsema, the loss at Hudderfield motivated us to go with an English coach.
    2. We also modernised our Technical Commission adding old internationals Rat Verlegh (NAC) and Harry Mommers (Willem II) and expert van der Meulen. That commision started to organise centralised youth trainings for prominent players of districts, searched for new talent across the country and made new schedules. Many efforts were made to raise our level for the future.
    3. We started to play ''het stopperspilsysteem"

    As much as these defeats hurted us in the time, I think that thanks to country's like England in our geographical closeness, the Netherlands could develop into the football nation it is nowadays. Because they were far ahead of us in that time, losing big to them, hurt our pride and motivated us to improve our game.

    The 4-1 defeat in Euro 1996

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unnBRbcQICI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unnBRbcQICI[/ame]

    This was the biggest defeat we suffered when we played in a FIFA final tournament, whether that be the WC or the EC. There is a 3-0 defeat at the hands of Czechoslovakia in the WC of 1938 (same margin), but we had to accept 4 goals instead of 3 so I consider this one the biggest in our history in that respect. The funny thing about the one goal we scored by Kluivert, is that it put us trough to the knock out stage of Euro 1996. It was a vital goal.


    Most painfull losses the English suffered at the hands of the Dutch:

    The 3-1 defeat in Euro 1988:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Uc7B8Oyuw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Uc7B8Oyuw[/ame]

    I remember my mother saying: ''Wat is Marcootje toch eigenlijk ook goed he?'' My mother always used the typical Dutch addition -je to express her admiration for a player of the Dutch national team she had no clue off, how he performed previously for the NT or how he did on club level. Later Overmars, became Overmarsje, but she had to stop when Sneijder started playing, because that would be a pleonasm. She did had a point though. Marco had a great tournament, scoring all 3 against England and made in the final of it, against the Soviet Union, the most beautiful goal in the history of European Championship football.

    The 2-0 defeat for the 1994 WC qualification campaign

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vyz1NqssIE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vyz1NqssIE[/ame]

    Painful loss for England, as it was a play off for the WC 1994 and England had to stay at home and watch it from behind the TV.

    Clashes between players to look out for:

    Robben vs Cole
    de Jong vs Gerrard/Lampard
    Heitinga vs Rooney

    and last but not least, if v Marwijk go's for a footballing defensive midfield:

    vd Vaart vs Wilshire

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw02US4QL6k"]‪Rafael Van Der Vaart Amazing Skill on Jack Wilshire‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    :), I think Wilshire has still something to settle.


  2. feyenoordsoccerfan

    feyenoordsoccerfan Member+

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    august the 10th 2011 England - Oranje

    August the 10th 2011 it is England vs the mighty Orange machine (just kidding).
    Wonder how much energy the lads have tanked in the holiday season.
    Hope the English put in a strong attack as I want to see our defense and midfield tested to the hilt.
  3. JC-14

    JC-14 Member

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    What exactly is the reason we're playing this game?
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    To strengthen the habit of winning or ''not losing'' with uncomfortable mindsets (start of club season) that are according v Marwijk necessary to win a WC/EC.

    Motto v Marwijk: Winning is a habit.


  5. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    To make a bit of money probably.
  6. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    Surprised to see Robben in the squad, given his recent injury and the history of KNVB vs. Bayern. My guess is that he will probably fall out of the selection. Wijnaldum to replace?
  7. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    Probable England lineup:

    --------Hart
    Johnson--Terry--Ferdinand---A.Cole
    --Carrick/Lampard--Parker--Wilshere
    --A.Johnson---Rooney---A.Young

    Gerrard's injured so misses the game like he did in the last friendly against you as well.


    Good luck
  8. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    Re: England-Netherlands 10-08-2011

    Of course Robben's going to drop out. I can't imagine any replacements being called up either. When's the next qualifier?

    I have to say at this stage of the season a friendly seems even more pointless than normally. On what basis can you call up players now. Whoever's gained the least weight during their summer holiday?
  9. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    Looks like Bert is holding grudges. :p

    After leaving out de Zeeuw in the preliminary squad he has now made the decision of omitting Janssen as well in favour of Wijnaldum.

  10. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

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    Great news! Looks like Bert is thinking about the future. De Zeeuw and Janssen are not, Wijnaldum is exactly that.

    A bit off-topic...
    Ex-Arsenal Nacer Barazite (who just scored a hattrick for his new club Austria Vienna in the Champions League qualifying match) is included in Jong Oranje. Interestingly, he was also called up to the Morocco NT set up earlier this week. I guess we'll find out if Gerets/Verbeek would be able to influence his decision.
  11. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    Wijnaldum only made the trip to South America because of everybody else calling in sick. :p

    I think Bert is just sending out a signal, Janssen will make the squad for the next QF I'm sure about this.

    It will be a shame if Barazite decides to opt for the Maroccon NT after playing for the Oranje youth since he was 15, he has every chance of still making the grade considering his age.
  12. JC-14

    JC-14 Member

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    Good for Janssen, good for Ajax. While I don't mind at all, it has to be said that Janssen unlike De Zeeuw had a valid excuse to not go to South America.

    Maduro is selected btw. Is that a first since Van Basten?

    Boulahrouz, Braafheid and Pieters for defense. How embarrassing. About time a new generation steps up.
  13. thatkid

    thatkid Member

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    What's wrong with Pieters?
    He is not great but he is still young! He has the propper build for a defender as well, it's a good thing that Bert is investing in him. I think he will become a fine defender in the future! Boula on the other hand should stop, he is done.

    As for the exclusion of Janssen: Marwijk's answer is a pretty good one.. "Opties genoeg" What's the point in selecting Janssen when you already have Wesley Sneijder?!

    Wijnaldum is also an obvious choice. I don't know if you guys realize but we are going to have a serious shortage of talented players in our front-line and our midfield in the future..

    Robben, Sneijder, van Persie, Van der Vaart, Huntelaar, those players have already reached their peak, they are at the top of their game and that's why we are No.2 in the world right now. But let's not get too comfortable with this luxury that we have. Most of them won't make it to WC2014. What are we going to do after that? It's a gamble but we need to start investing in players like Wijnaldum and Strootman if we want to have a strong NT in the future.
  14. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

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    Couldn't agree more. Meaningless friendlies are when you're testing all these talents...
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    Excellent point Thatkid. This is bothering me more lately than actually the qualification for 2012 or even Euro 2012 itself. Looking at the horizon I see nothing from the exceptional class. Absolutely nothing. Robben and Sneijder. Those two have risen in the WC and brought us to the final and made us win the WC were it not that Casillas should have had a shorter big toe. It's the exceptional class of a few individuals in a body of good players that make teams win things. We have had Greece, but that was an exception to the rule.

    I mean when was the last time you were really excited about a Dutch prospect? For the last time for me it was when vd Vaart was around 18 years old. It landed with me totally in an Ajax game vs Barcelona when he tried to spin/roulette Reiziger. Reiziger could only stop him by wrapping his arms around VDV body. VDV scored loads of goals when he started at Ajax. I was so excited to see him play and then that goal vs Feyenoord. Epicness. He combined many goals, with beautiful ones, excellent overall play and good passing. He looked super. That was really great for Dutch national team fans. We are now almost 8 or 10 years further and I haven't seen anything like that again. It doesn't have to go that way of course. VDV himself got passed by Sneijder later in life, where it was VDV that was the super prodigy that had to be. Looking at Ruud van Nistelrooy you can develop at later age instead of flaming when you are just 18. Having said all that, I would like to see a top talent making his way again. What Brazilians now have with Neymar. We had that for the last time with vd Vaart IMO.
  16. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    Has been quite a regular after the WC.

    I agree about the bolded and hope to see Anita, Siem, Fer & van Wolfswinkel getting regular call ups soon.

    LB is our Achilles heel, Braafheid as his back-up probably says it all. It's a shame that Daley hasn't fulfilled his promise.

    I don't think Bert really cares about our future beyond EC' 12 though since it will be his last tournament or we would've already waved goodbye to the likes of van Bommel 34 (can you believe that Seedorf is only 1 year older? whoa!) and Kuyt 31. He has always stated that he wanted to coach a club side in one of the bigger competitions.

  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    Eeeeh I saw somebody posting Robben was out, why did I saw him playing for Bayern today. He's in, he's out, what's the deal? What's my boy doing?
  18. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    Robben is in, but RVP is likely out.
  19. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    I saw Sneijder scoring a screamer for Inter so I suppose the two important players are there. RVP was pumped in the friendly a year ago against England. I think because he plays in EPL and is more motivated to show himself. I'm frustrated about our strikers. RVP is not clicking in Orange, Klaas and Ruud not smooth and in Klaas case also not mobile enough. New boy from Twente also to immobile. I would like to have a guy like Lukaku from Belgium. Fast strong, army on it's own. Maybe we should play Kuyt in striker position and Elia on the left. Robben right.
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    Back on the talent problems of the Netherlands.

    I talked this weekend with a 73 year old man who had been scout for the KNVB for 30 years when we both watched some talented youth football in the weekend. I immediately stated I was worried about the replacement of the exceptional players in Orange, like Robben, Sneijder and VDV. That I didn't saw anything really special. He said he was relaxed about it. Talents are there all off the sudden. I found it a pretty weird remark from a man who's job it has been to to monitor Dutch talent and signal who the big ones are and up and coming. But he kept on going that Marc Overmars brother had more talent than Marc. He had watched them both from early on. Marc succeeded brilliantly, his brother didn't. The old fox made me a bit more relax.
  21. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    People were down playing Robben, Sneijder & RVP's potential in the past as well like how we're doing now with the newer generation. I think the talent is there and hopefully the likes of Castaignos will surprise us.

    Ajax are expecting a lot from Davy Klaassen the coming years.
  22. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    I think Castillion fits the bill the most, he's exactly the same height and with Lukaku having lost weight they have similiar build. Was also thinking of Genaro Zeefuik from PSV, but he isn't nearly as tall.

    Castillion has everything in him to become the next Kluivert, but needs to sort out his fitness, keeps getting little injuries here and there.
  23. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    I thought RVP would never make it at Arsenal. Attitude and going to young. That is funny in retrospect as he is even one of the leading figure's in that team now, with Fabregas and 1 or 2 others. Sneijder was for me always less off a talent than VDV. I even sometimes felt sorry for Sneijder. Only when Sneijder had his top year with Inter I was really convinced that he is a bit better than VDV. VDV has just had such a meteoretic start of his career with Ajax, that Sneijder was always nr 2 in my head. I wonder when other people started to see Sneijder clearly as 1 and VDV on 2. I mean the people who have seen the 2 start their career. Robben I don't know who you refer to. I remember reading an article from Martin Jol years back, when he said that he thought v Nisterlooy was a small miracle (I believe when he was at PSV) and Robben was a big miracle (young at Groningen). He already predicted a great future for Robben. If I look at it now, I don't know who has had a bigger career. Robben or Ruud. Robben has still 3 to 4 years to go, so hard to say. Two complete different players.

    Having said all this, Castagnos is not going to make it at Inter. I just don't see the big assets the guy brings to the table. He has nothing really special. RVP was attitude liability. Castaignos is quality liability. He did oke, but I have not seen something really special. He is not that fast, not that clinical, not that skillful, not that great of a passer. I don't see it. Look even at Affelay. First he had to battle Pedro, now Barca have bought some hot shot from Chili. What is he going to do? Inter and Barca are to big for players without exceptional class. Afellay I can understand a bit going to Barca as he was one of the better players of the Eredivisie and actually made Barca win one CL fight against Madrid, but Castaignos going so early to Inter to play in Serie B is something I can seriously get pissed off about. van Basten said you have yo go away from the Eredivisie when you have become the best in it, something Castaignos was pretty far from.
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

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    But if Castillion is already 20. Kluivert scored the winning goal in the CL when he was 18. Lukaku is 18 and moves (stupid as he is) to Chelsea. Castillion had a great chance now Mounir is out of grace yet Ajax buy Kolbeinn Sigþórsson and he has to go to RKC.

    Klaassen I don't know, will start to pay attention.
  25. he so scrumptiouz

    he so scrumptiouz Member+

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    Castillion lost a full year because of his knee when he was about to join the 1st team. Now that he's back he hasn't been 100% fit in pre season, sending him on loan to RKC was the best option because he needs games under his belt.

    Lukaku is great, but he doesn't convince for Belgium so far with 2 goals in 10 games. There's something fishy about him, last season was rather dissapointing as well. Castillion has it in him to do a Ruud (exactly same birthday as Kluivert) and have the better career in the end, he was really prolific in the youth teams.

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