Erik Palmer-Brown to Juventus

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Clint Eastwood, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    I thought this was worthy of its own thread. We knew Juventus had made an offer for Erik Palmer-Brown, and now it looks like a deal has been reached.

    Thanks to Scotty in the YA forum for the translation

    Here's the latest from Italian journalist Alfredo Pedullà (translated from Italian):

    Exclusive: Palmer-Brown and Juve, training stints expected

    Juventus’ deal for Erik Palmer-Brown, the 1997-born defender, will see them ‘parking’ the youngster with Sporting Kansas City until he reaches the age of eighteen. It is in Juve’s best interest that the teenager, considered to be very promising and already part of his country’s U-20 side, gain the necessary experience before arriving in Italy, and it’s a solution that also works out well for his U.S. club.

    The agreement, which will be signed after the January transfer market, will also see Palmer-Brown coming to Italy for various training stints in order to facilitate his settling in as he prepares to make the move permanently. It’s a solution has been studied in detail and one that satisfies everyone.

    http://www.alfredopedulla.com/articoli/37232-esclusiva-palmer-brown-juve-previsti-stage-in-italia

    So this is a Joseph Gyau/Charles Renken type of scenario. Juventus is puchasing Erik, but he can't move over there until he's 18. So Erik will train with SKC in the meantime. Seems like the kind of arrangement that could work nicely for other prospects like Haji Wright, etc.


  2. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    From the way the Pedullà initially reported the deal, it sounds as if SKC will get a base of $25oK for him. And then the figure will increase depending on the number of appearances he makes with SKC.

    So there's financial incentive for SKC to develop Palmer-Brown; the more they play him next season, the more they'll end up getting for him.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  3. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    I think this could become a model for and European clubs looking to buy young American players(16-17 year olds). Gyau and Flores could have been loaned out to MLS clubs with monetary incentive to develop them and then do the overseas training stints during the off season.

    I'm thinking the same might be done with Haji Wright. Loaned to the Galaxy somehow from a European job.
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Well, Gyau and Renken were sent to the Vancouver Whitecaps academy. At the time it wasn't an "MLS academy," but still considered one of the best pro academies in the US/Canada.

    I certainly think it could be a model for the future. We'll see. There has to be an incentive for the MLS club. I mean, do we think Palmer-Brown is going to play much for SKC this season? Of course not. Who starts a 17 year old centerback at an MLS level? Nobody. Especially a team with Besler, Collin, Opara, and company still on the roster. So there must be some incentive other than MLS playing time.

    As far as I know, for example, Rubio Rubin, hasn't been in Holland much with his club. Why couldn't he have been training with the Portland TImbers since the end of the U17 World Cup campaign? Maybe he has been. I don't know. As we know, there's been a "dead zone" in between when youngsters like Flores, Perez, Rubin, and company sign with Euro clubs and when they're actually able to head over there to train full-time. The lucky ones with the ability to get Euro passports (like Hyndman, Pelosi, and company) have a built-in advantage there.


  5. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    Let's not read too much in it as a 'benefit' to MLS. Its being done out of necessity for those without EU passports.
    We'll pay you a pittance now to get a jump on competition so you can hold onto him until 18. I still can't see how this really benefits MLS. A few bucks? Sure. But Even great prospects rarely get playing time prior to age 18. MLS does not get the benefit of their talent on the field to then warrant a true market value for the developing talent at age 20-21. How bout don't sell him prematurely with huge discounts to Juventus, invest properly in his development, gain the value of his on field talent for a few yrs bring more fans paying more for the improving onfield local talent they've developed, Win some trophies with that talent, then resign for big bucks to keep him on your successful team or sell him at a proper value of significance. Its almost like having no insight into long term business goals. Its like immediately selling a new found idea without the knowledge or insight on how to develop that asset into big bucks a few yrs later. The outcome is that we'll rarely see him at SKC he's still have to go to Juvenus youth teams to prove himself worthy of any first team minutes. Its OK that MLS gets on field benefits for signing top US prospects at some point isn't it?
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  6. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    If Juve are using a foreign player transfer slot on the kid in a year or two, that's pretty impressive.
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    The advantage to SKC won't be in official MLS games this season, which will be his last. We searched for 18 year olds getting playing time in MLS during the whole Matt Miazga kerfluffle (Matt did make a few appearances). Erik doesn't turn 17 until March. He's a year younger than Matt.

    I guess the one advantage is that if SKC work hard with him in training, and he does well at Juve..................that's a big feather in their cap while they're trying to recruit other young stars to their academy. Something to put on the website and the brochure!!! :) Think of it as advertising.

    It's just one of those things. They're probably paying the kid next to nothing right now. If Juve comes and wants to buy a young player........................are you really going to say no? I'd say no to Coventry or Livorno or Eintracht Braunscheig. But if Juventus makes a reasonable bid, and the kid wants to go,.............you kinda just let him go.

    We can't have it both ways. As we develop this "ladder" in the states so elite prospects can move up towards the best pro MLS environments possible.............the next rung in the ladder is an elite Euro academy like Juventus. You kinda gotta let the kid take that step. We can't say "well, it stops here. You need to play for SKC until you're 21 even though you have this opportunity with Juventus or Arsenal or Bayern." MLS just needs to get to the point where a club like SKC has more than one Erik Palmer-Brown in the pipeine. If Erik leaves, it needs to be "next man up."
  8. SUDano

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    Of course you can say no! Shitty transfer fees are rejected all the time. What's a reasonable bid with one of your top prospects prior to him even playing for your team. By its very nature they want to under pay a transfer fee prior to having to pay more when the player really develops in a few yrs and they have to compete with other team's bids. Have it both ways? The next rung in the ladder is for SKC to see the benefit of their signing not to ship him off to Juventus academies. The business of MLS soccer is not a feel good endeavor. You don't just let anybody take him off your team that wants him because you want to be nice to him for whatever they want to offer. Your last line makes no sense. You just don't give your player away because its a big club so they can go play for their youth teams prior to ever playing for your first team. MLS will always be considered minor league if they continue to talk out one side of their mouth about increasing the quality play on the field and investing in youth development when its clear they do neither. By next man up do you mean sign a player get a measly offer by a big club and agree to terms prior to playing for their club? MLS has to decide soon if they truly want to build and invest in a true youth development structure that will pay for itself in talent and fees for decades in the future or sell every promising propect for the first inital small fee. MOving up the ladder is within our borders not shipping all our prospects overseas. That would be a ladder missing a step so no one can climb up it. A non functioning ladder. Do they want to ship top prorspects to Europe and replace them with low wage 4 yr college players from the draft. I know what makes sense to me.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  9. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    Well this only really matter if/when he makes the first team right?

    Or are there rules regarding a limit on foreign players in a team’s academy?
  10. ielag

    ielag Member+

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    It will be when the actual transfer is completed, doesn't matter if he goes to their academy or first team. He'll take up a non-EU transfer spot.
  11. ielag

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    SKC has been willing to let Roger Espinoza, Matt Besler, and Graham Zusi walk away on a free, they were able to re-sign Besler and Zusi. Their ownership group does not strike me at all as one that's looking to make a deal unless it makes real good sense to them.
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  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    I did not even know this existed.

    When did this come up? is it an Italian rule?
  13. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    You're right I'm only going on the information that's been trickling out in this post. So my points only hold firm if the facts are 250K until the age of 18. I'm not a big fan of giving decisions a pass when other situations with different details and variables worked out. Each occurrence holds different weight depending on each siutations separate details. Every personnel decision with SKC or MLS in general will get different reaction based on each separate situation.
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    In the same way that Britain has work permit rules to prevent a huge influx of foreigners (in theory), in Italy they have rules governing how many foreign players can be brought in during every transfer window.

    They're not "giving him away" before he's impacted their first team. I'm working under the assumption that Juventus offered a transfer fee that SKC was happy with. We had originally heard that the transfer bid for Erik was declined. I don't know the details, but it would seem to me that SKC put a pricetag on Erik........................and Juventus eventually matched it. Then they worked out an agreement by which Erik can stay at SKC until he's 18.

    And yes, MLS is a "minor league" in 2014 compared to Juventus and Serie A. If the same bid had come in from a Scandinavian or Belgian team, would MLS have declined it? Probably.

    We're not shipping all of our prospects overseas. Just the absolute best of the best. Those are kids whose talent level demands coaching at a higher level than what MLS academies can provide.
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  15. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes it's a serie a rule. You can only bring in two or three non EU passport holders in to the league each year. Once they are in they are cleared to transfer between teams.
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  16. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    The Italian journalist who's reporting on it says the fee could rise "significantly" based on how many appearances he makes. So if it's true that SKC initially rejected the $1M-bid before settling on this one, then I'm guessing they're making sure about not letting themselves get ripped off.

    But it's still hard to know anything for certain yet with so few solid details coming out.
  17. soccerndo

    soccerndo Member

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    Isn't this the kid that Williams refused to take to Panama in favour of Justin Glad? Boy, what a difference a year makes.
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  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Justin Glad is also a really good prospect in my opinion......................................
  19. SUDano

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    What is SKC incentive to accept a 250K offer from Juventus but 'reject' a 250K offer from anyone else. Makes no sense to me.
    SKC is signing him but then telling themselves he's too good for us and we don't deserve him so we'll prematurely sell him before even getting to see what type of player he will turn into to.
    This level of inferiority is confusing to me. We'll sell young players who will become too good for MLS before they see the field but we'll keep the lesser player to showcase to our fans.
    At some point SKC and MLS will have to take a stand about really trying to develop and keep US top players to showcase in our league as opposed to letting them go as young players for free or 250K then resigning them 7 yrs later on transfer fees of ($9 million) and $10 million and salaries of $6million and 6.5 million.
    In 4 yrs MLS will have paid close to $70 Million dollars to 2 players they chose not to sign and keep them in a the league for much less than that. Here's hoping we don't let EPB get so good so the fans of Europe can see him play the game at a high level then resign him on the wrong side of his talent for 20 million dollars. Bad business, bad development, bad publicity.
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  20. SUDano

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    He really sucked in the 2nd half of the Honduras game. Still can't find anywhere why they took Tyler Turner out of the game. Glad is not a DM but I did see some games where he played CB and he looked like a good prospect. He's a CB not a DM.
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    I don't necessarily believe the information regarding transfer fee, etc. that we're seeing in that source. Hell, I have no clue how reliable that source is to begin with. It could be the MLS Rumors of Italy.

    All I know is that if SKC wasn't happy with the transfer fee, they could have declined.

    As a USYNT/USMNT fan.............................I'm not upset when one of our better prospects is sold to a club like Juventus.
  22. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    He's a respected journalist in Italy and considered an expert when it comes to the transfer market.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
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  23. soccerndo

    soccerndo Member

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    Just watch the "lowlight" of him against the u17s recently. It ain't happening for Glad but I respect your opinion.
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Oh, .well there goes that idea :)

    I would say along with the other posters that this deal makes a lot of sense from the point of view of Juventus and Erik Palmer-Brown.

    I have yet to see what's in it for SKC. 250k is chump change. And there's no way they're going to play a kid who's currently 16 in MLS games..............so there's no way they'll reach those kinds of incentives. Essentially they're going to expend their resources over the next year to develop a player for Juventus. Which is fine if the price is right. 250k isn't right. So we'll see what the real numbers are at some point. Maybe then the deal will make more sense to people. Perhaps there are incentives on the Juventus end. Such as "If he plays XX number of first-team games for Juventus in the future, SKC gets big pile of cash Y."
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  25. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    Very true this may all be smoke and mirrors. Even if this is all true and SKC is happy with the fee doesn't then make me all happy with the world. I feel intelligent enough and well informed enough to have correctly disagreed with the powers that be and their decisions. I think I come from a sound place. As a USYNT fan and short sighted decision I'm ok with Juventus signing him as a fan of MLS and the long term growth of the game in the US I am not.

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