Pre-match: (EURO 2012 - Semi Final) Germany vs. Italy 06.28.2012 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Lahmfan, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Obsidian

    Obsidian Member

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    Hmmm...I still do see lots of leadership qualitys in Schweinsteiger actually...it just was far from beeing his year *hides behind rock* :speechless:


  2. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

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    Schweinsteiger doesn't even understand what he's saying most of the time while reciting the phrases that he was told to recite. He's a great football player when in top shape and can "lead by example", but - personality-wise - he's certainly no leader. The other players might as well follow an empty bag or an unused handkerchief.
  3. StrangerThan

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    I hope you're kidding. Mesut and Muller were most broken-hearted after the loss. If you read that Ozil's interview to Die Welt you know he's still suffering a lot. Well, I think Neuer as well, he just has such a strong mentality, I don't think he's ever cried after losing a game. Though you can see he HATES losing. All three of them are fighters. They'll fight till the final whistle. At least that's what I could see watching Real Madrid and Bayern games.
  4. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

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    Yes, indeed.


  5. StrangerThan

    StrangerThan Member

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    Phew...

    :D
  6. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

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    Group hug?
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  7. Raumdeuter

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    I would think Kroos would fit into the leader group, he was captain of the youth side and he has a certain arrogance around him, I think he has been softening a lil maybe due to the bayern sorrounding.

    I think Muller is a dedicated team player probably not a leader. i cant see Muller captaining any side. he is just a dedicated worker who would follow orders and never complain or rock the boat, Boateng and Badstuber also fit into this category.

    Gotze, Ozil, Reus, Gundogan maybe the individualists

    Last we have the politicians (Lahm and Schweini) and the assholes (Poldi and KPBoateng)
  8. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

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    Kroos could be a leader if he talked more. But usually he doesn't. Then again, he's young and I could potentially see him turning into something like a captain 5+ years down the road.

    Müller is one of the most outspoken players in this team. He's one of the few that could have easily been around in the 80s or 90s, since he's much more authentic than most of the others. If he's not a leader, then he's an individualist. Definitely not a worker who keeps his mouth shut. He complains all the time, both within the team as well as in front of the media. Just recently, during the Euro, he openly criticized the media for their negative treatment of the team and its accomplishments.

    Lahm is a politician, but Schweinsteiger doesn't even know what a politician is. Podolski isn't an asshole, he's just the courtjester and entirely harmless. Schweinsteiger and Podolski were practically the same until 2009 - both kids that were constantly joking. Then, suddenly, Schweinsteiger was transformed into a pseudo-leader and since then has desperately tried to act accordingly in an unconvincing fashion, whereas Podolski has still stayed the same as before, just slightly toned down.
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  9. Raumdeuter

    Raumdeuter Member+

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    ^^ Why i called Muller a worker was the way he has been tossed around at Bayern and he never complains, he is does his tasks without any grumble. If he is asked to play Left back you can be assured that he would do it cheerfully.

    Why I wont call him an individualist is that my idea of those are the silky players who believe in their own skill(Ozil, Kroos, Gotze, Gundogan, Reus) Mullers game is more of hardwork than technique. I am sure neither Kroos, Oezil can be that humble Muller even accepted benh roles without complaints. You see how Kroos reacted when he was benched for the NT while Muller never talked when he was benched for half of the season at Bayern
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  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator Staff Member

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    None of this would have happened if Loew had selected Kevin Grosskreutz in the squad
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  11. Obsidian

    Obsidian Member

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  12. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

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    Lol...and also, you avatar has a lot of "win" in it!
  13. timh19

    timh19 Member+

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    why ?
  14. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

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    Hot chick? I don't know. If I have to explain it... :rolleyes:
  15. timh19

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    I didnt understand what kind of win u were talking about. Win ..... the award for the best avatar on BigSoccer or what ? If he was banging her, that would be a win...... :whistling:
  16. Dr Faust

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    The question is whether Sammer refers to the actual personality of the respective player or their function and skills as footballers. He seems to equate those two and thereby simplifies the matter.

    If we go by that, I don't think those two aspects (a player being a leader and a player taking on any role that is needed within the structure of the team) are mutually exclusive. Kahn is known for his leadership qualities, his 'hothead' and his flamboyant actions, but has mentioned a few times that all this was done for the sake of the team. Ballack became a leader in his late 20s (before that he was nothing of that sort, despite being labeled that way over and over again) and still played offensive or defensive-minded roles when asked to, because it benefited the team's performance. Ballack only started to complain when he saw the team and its performance in danger. He was also 30+ by that time.

    With Müller, he's a versatile player who hasn't found his best role and is an adequate solution on a number of positions. He's also young and wasn't in the greatest of shapes in this past season. There's no reason for him to complain in this situation. If he'll happen to be in top condition at 27 or 30 with a clear prefence for one specific position, he won't take it in the same way - especially if he regards himself as a vital part of the team that improves it.

    Regardless of his role on the pitch, I'm mainly judging the personality as conveyed in interviews, press conferences and the actual behaviour during a match. Müller is one of the few German players today who clearly state their personal views, talk freely without relying on ready-made phrases and act in unconventional ways. During matches, he can be found complaining and hectically waving around his arms if things don't go his way. This once led as far as to Robben feeling the urge to punch Müller's face for being "impudent" after a game.

    If Müller can improve his level of play, stick around in this team and stay as an integral part of it, he'll be one of the leaders in the not too distant future. He's one of the few with the necessary character traits. Much more so than some of the individualists like Özil or Götze who come across as really shy and even more so than fabricated token-leaders like Schweinsteiger.
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  17. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Moderator Staff Member

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    I really got the impression this year that Schweinsteiger is very easily affected by football. By that I mean affected negatively by its low points. I can't remember at which point but during the EUROs he gave an interview where he said how much this season got to him and how fatigued he was, physically and mentally. Then at the end of the tournament he talked about what a nightmare this year was. He is by no means a "follower", he's a very driven guy who in the right circumstances can be excellent, but he might not be what we all want him to be.
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  18. Dage

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    That may be true but it's for sure a matter of expirience. You can sort out things like that
  19. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

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    Well, I'm sure he's capable of experiencing emotions, with him being the 'emotional leader' and all (one of Jogi's many catchy catch phrases that were specifically designed for his group of kids).

    The problem with Schweinsteiger is that hardly anything he says ever comes across as persuasive and truthful, let alone as a product of his own conviction. It sounds fabricated and usually is just the same old and trite phrases that people want to hear and that does not have any sort of edge to it. It usually sounds like he was told what to say by his advisor or the management. Even with these statements about him feeling fatigued, it is more like him expressing a collective feeling of "the Bayern players" rather than an individual's honest stance on the matter. Plus, he only said that after the very same assumption had been stated by the press and several experts over and over again, to the point where Schweinsteiger was simply confirming their view by basing his own "statement" on their already clichéd quotes. To me, he comes across like a gorilla in a suit or like Podolski suddenly wearing glasses and acting like an intellectual after being told so. An instrumentialized pretender.

    I think that Schweinsteiger is simply a leader 'by default'. When van Bommel left Bayern and Ballack's NT career was suddenly over, there was a need to fill their respective roles as the leaders. In both teams, Schweinsteiger and Lahm were basically the only guys who somewhat fit the profile, since they were aged 25+, had been part of the teams for several years and were also undisputed starters of a very high quality. From a footballing view, they are the logical candidates to lead the team, but personality-wise they just don't cut it, especially not Schweinsteiger.

    In the 90s, with several stronger characters around, neither Schweinsteiger nor Lahm would have been close to having that status. However, there were simply no adequate choices left this time around. Similarly to Ballack, they only achieved this position through a process of elimination where they were the sole common demoninators and practically forced to take on a role that naturally hardly suits them. Fortunately, I see better suited candidates arising for the (near) future.
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  20. ForeverRed

    ForeverRed Moderator Staff Member

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    That's also a PR thing, this generation of players, like most around the world nowadays, are so indoctrinated and media trained that their responses do sound fabricated rather than a product of their own convictions.
  21. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

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    That is, unfortunately, the major underlying problem. Therefore it's good to see that there are still a few that seem to speak their minds rather than spouting the same old empty phrases over and over again. Müller is one and, despite clearly being media trained, Hummels and Höwedes are two others who are actually able to form coherent thoughts for themselves and express them convincingly.

    And even among those that don't have much to say and that mainly act like answering machines, there's a distinction between those that are actually aware of what they are saying (Neuer, Khedira) and those that just mindlessly repeat whatever they have been told to say (Schweinsteiger and some others).

    And then there's, of course, Podolski, who desperately tries to repeat what he's been told, but often doesn't quite manage to do so.
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  22. Wappy

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    A bit off topic, but the discussion above actually made me wonder if there are any leading footballers of the younger generation that have already shown strong leadership abilities? Messi, Iniesta are big game players but seem to be very reserved in character; Ronaldo... bit of a whiner. The only I can think of so far is Sergio Ramos.

    But back to the German NT discussion: I would fancy the two Schalke youth products being leaders in the future :)))
  23. nekkibasara

    nekkibasara Member+

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    I could definitely see Neuer growing into that leadership role.
  24. odd1234

    odd1234 Member

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    Bads has a tough-wannabe side to him as well.
  25. odd1234

    odd1234 Member

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    I don't know about this whole leadership thing. Barcelona don't exactly have a group of leaders, its more or less the character and the influence of the coach. I think generally speaking, any complacency like what podolski showed this season should be downright ignored.

    Speaking on this issue, I think Mueller and Reus should be the future of this germany flank, like no more procrastinating or waiting for podolski - I've grown tired of that mofo.
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