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Exciting young forwards coming through the pipeline

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by deuteronomy, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Klinsi' knows what the kid can produce, and is in the mold of a forward he loves... which is consant tireless running and pressureing of a defense.

    The main thing is he gets PT, and more time against true professionals at a first division in europe.

    He has the capability to be Gomez II as they both play very very similar IMO.
     


  2. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    It was from uncomfirmed post that Austrian Bl was at number 16 and if you think they are the same...You didn't say they were 16st strongest, you just said they were the same as MLS.
     
  3. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    No I didn't.
     
  4. RangerC

    RangerC Member

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    Here's a list of players under discussion ordered by age (plus a few others thrown in for perspective) - helps to see, for example, just how young Juan Agudelo is (he's basically a U-20):

    U-15 (2013 U17 WC, 2017 U20 WC, 2020 U-23)
    Mukwelle Akale (Jan 97)

    U-17 (2015 U20 WC, 2016 U-23)
    Wesley Wade (Sep 96)
    Ahinga Selemani (Mar 96)

    U-18 (2015 U20 WC, 2016 U-23)
    Zach Pfeffer (Jan 95)

    U-20 (2016 U-23)
    Jack McBean (Dec 94)
    Omar Salgado (Sep 93)
    Jerome Kiesewetter (Feb 93)
    Villyan Bijev (Jan 93)

    U-23
    Juan Agudelo (Nov 92)
    Terrence Boyd (Feb 91)
    Andrew Wenger (Dec 90)
    Teal Bunbury (Feb 90)
    Jozy Altidore (Nov 89)
    Will Bruin (Oct 89)
    Andrew Wooten (Sep 89)

    CJ Sapong (Dec 88)
     
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  5. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

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    Please read Clint's posts. Then re-read. We have been down this path before...

    I will get excited about a young forward who meets the following "excitement" criteria:
    • Under 20
    • Playing consistently in a top tier league (EPL, La Liga, Seria A, Bundesligia)
    • or playing consistently and scoring goals in a top tier 2nd division
    • or Top 3 Goal scorer in the MLS for a season.
    Playing well in a U-18, U-20, or even Olympics tournament doesn't excite me. Having a good season at New York and doing nothing the next season doesn't excite me.

    The days of getting excited that a player is even on a team in a European league is over.
     
  6. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    A big issue for Austria is that soccer is a clear #2 in a relatively small country.
     
  7. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

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    I think you're confusing "exciting" with "elite." Very few globally meet your criteria.
     
  8. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

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    Isn't/shouldn't our goal to be a consistent Top Ten Team in the world? Otherwise, it's just status quo with a forward in Holland and not much else...

    I probaby should relax the under 20 to more like under 22 or 23, but otherwise, I stick with my criteria...
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Skiing?

    I was looking recently at the whereabouts of the kids that eliminated the US from that 2007 U20 World Cup. That was a team constructed of all domestic Austrian players (at the time) other than Martin Harnik. From a US point of view, at the time we thought of that loss as VERY disappointing. In hindsight, quite a number of the Austrian kids from that squad have hit the big time

    Martin Harnik-Stuttgart
    Veli Kavlak-Besiktas
    Erwin Hoffer-Just moved from Napoli to Eintracht Frankfurt
    Sebastian Prödl-Werder Bremen
    Zlatko Junuzović-Werder Bremen
    Rubin Okotie-Nuremberg (although I think they've been loaning him out)
    etc. etc.

    Meanwhile on the US side we only have two kids from that U20 team playing on "bigger" teams in Europe: Bradley and Altidore. (Unless you want to count Robbie Rogers, who's a bench player at Leeds) For a team that made the quarterfinals of a U20WC, it's rather shocking how the majority of our players failed to progress. Many of them aren't even playing at an MLS level right now.

    All I'm saying is that young talent can progress thru the Austrian league. If you do well there, a "bigger" club will find you. If Boyd does well at Rapid, he'll find himself in a bigger league soon enough. Whether a player in the Austrian Bundesliga deserves a place in the USMNT is another matter. You can't just "be" in the Austrian Bundesliga and expect a USMNT call-up. You've gotta be starting and playing well.
     
  10. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes alpine skiing is immensely popular in Austria. The majority of kids I played soccer with were immigrants or children of.
     
  11. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    We can aspire to whatever. The reality is that without players even somewhat exciting we won't be replacing Clint Dempsey and instead will be relying on Chris Wondoloeski level players.
     
  12. chimac4u

    chimac4u Red Card

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    Think he's kicking himself for not just going with the Canadian side?
     
  13. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    The truth is that soccer is number two only during winter and relatively small is an understatement. Between 7 million and 9 million citizens ever. percentage-wise they produce good players on a level with everyone else.
     
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't really understand what you're saying.
     
  15. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

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    There's another guy who doesn't merit inclusion with the above-mentioned U23s, both because of his rawness and also because he might be considered more of a winger, but I thought I'd throw his name out there because of his size/athleticism--- Cobi Span. The probability is that he won't become a USMNT-level player, but stranger things have happened.
     
  16. jond

    jond Member+

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    Uh, if I'm reading this correctly, those are pretty ridiculous standards. Also goes against the well known factor that Americans generally develop later. Playing consistently in a top tier(4) league while still an U20? What was Clint doing at 19? Landon? McBride? Mathis?

    I'd also argue MLS is on the same level as most top tier 2nd divisions, aside from the Bund2, so why is playing consistently and scoring goals in a 2nd division elsewhere one standard, but have to be a top 3 goal scorer in MLS another? That also imo puts to much a premium on stats and not talent, which is one of the more important things to look for with young players. Wondo is a top MLS goal scorer, but doesn't have half the talent Agudelo does.

    But thinking more about this, how many forwards does Brazil have which fit your criteria? And here I'm looking more at your first two listed requirements as I think your second two contradict each other. How many 18 and 19 yr old Brazilians are getting consistent playing time and scoring goals in a top 4 league? How many Spanish players? How many Germans? How many English? It's extremely rare to find an 18 or 19 yr old excelling as a forward in a top league, no matter what country you hail from, never mind America.
     
  17. bobunbury

    bobunbury Member

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    Again, Bunbury is playing the #9 position for SKC instead of Sapong. Sapong starts-and is doing really well-as the lw.
     
  18. Tony in Quakeland

    Tony in Quakeland Member+

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    May as well shut down Big Soccer then...
     
  19. Lascho

    Lascho Member+

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    The names in Austrian club soccer are a mess, and show a serious lack of pride and soccer culture, very few exceptions like Rapid aside.
    The name "FC Trenkwalder Admira" is pretty new. There isn't a town called Trenkwald, as one might think; Herr Trenkwalder is the current owner and sponsor of the team. The club was Admira Vienna, 9 times Austrian champions (and German runner-up in 1939), a historic club in decline. They fusioned with Wacker Vienna in the 70s to FC Admira/Wacker, later moved to the suburb of Mödling and were rebranded as SC Niederösterreich (sponsored by the rural federal state surrounding Vienna), then Admira/Wacker Mödling after a fusion with a local club, and then Trenkwalder bought the club to name it after himself.
    They were a giant until the 60s, and regularly played in Europe during the 90s.
     
  20. icebreaker

    icebreaker Member

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    Wintersports, not just skiing, are indeed the Nr. 1 sports in Austria. Their ski- jumpers for example are amazing, which as a German is really off- putting. ;)

    And like said, the Austrian league struggles from something seen in many medium to smaller leagues: A relatively decent top 2-4 teams, with the rest often being in a really bad shape, as Lascho showed exemplary. Still, a good chance that if you do well in the Austrian league to at least get noticed by a club the size of Stuttgart, Werder Bremen or Napoli.
     
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  21. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    U15
    DJ Villegas

    U23
    Jack Mac
    Adrian Ruelas
     
  22. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member

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    It would be cool if some of the mid-sized leagues would merge - I guess FIFA wouldn't dig it? - like Austrian w/ Swiss, maybe a couple of Scandinavians, Dutch w/ Belgian. Each country could still have its own Cup comp, w/o the other country's teams. Which might even liven up the Cup competition.
     
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  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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  24. Lascho

    Lascho Member+

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    FIFA won't have a say, that's UEFA territory.
    These ideas exist for a long time; however, nothing has happened yet except of the "Royal League" between team from Denmark, Norway and Sweden; given up after a few years because of a lack of sponsors and TV contracts.
     
  25. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

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    Do we get excited about five goals in MLS nowadays?
     
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