February Minnesota SRC Podcast Up

Discussion in 'Referee' started by vetshak, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

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    Just released tonight, should be available on iTunes by tomorrow morning, and available on YouTube as well at



    Return to original format this month... three clips, MLS, and then two youth ones. We're aggressively pushing back against referee (verbal) abuse in Minnesota this summer, so the second one is a previously posted YouTube clip evaluated from the referee's standpoint.


  2. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    The image of the coach arguing with the ref while his player lies nearly motionless on the ground holding his head is disturbing.
  3. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

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    And, probably not the first time anybody has seen it( not the clip, but rather this behavior in general).

    I don't really like poaching other people's YouTube clips, but this was just way too good of an example to not use. It had everything... a good call by the referee, then a bit of a mistake by allowing play to continue, then a flood of ridiculously awful behavior by the adults on the field.

    It's important for referees to recognize that even when they make a mistake, they don't have to sit there and absorb verbal abuse at the youth level. This poor fellow made what we think was a good no-call, then probably dropped the ball by not stopping play to let the injured player be dealt with. Nonetheless, the swearing and screaming at him was WAY over the line and referees need to realize that behavior is inexcusable and must be dealt with.
  4. ChomskyReferee

    ChomskyReferee Red Card

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    That first youth play is so strange. Why did the player just run straight into the keeper like that? He didn't even brace for impact.

    I think you should credit the person who's video you took though.


  5. ChomskyReferee

    ChomskyReferee Red Card

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    I found it, and the second play is even more interesting. What's the card for? What is the restart?

  6. sm. town ref

    sm. town ref Member

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    It certainly looks like the card is for striking or attempting to strike.... you can hear the whistle AFTER the keeper takes the swing/handbag to the face, which in a lot of cases could be a send off. So, based on the video, the restart should be a penalty.

    What COULD have been done though... yellow to keeper and one of the attackers for USB, and you could sell a IDK coming out saying that you were stopping play for the two attackers getting in the face of the keeper.
  7. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member

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    Very nice podcast. Can't wait to see more.

    As to the video that Chomsky posted. I can't see what happened due to the distance but its pretty clear players from both sides knew "something" happened and the keeper was guilty. Can't see the restart but I fear based on how things were setting up that they were going to give the ball back to the keeper. Speculation though.

    I think on the third player there needs to be one more red card.

    Perhaps a new thread for this is in order so we don't derail this one?
  8. refinDC

    refinDC Member

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    Agree -- would have loved to see a YC to one of the white players.

    vetshak - really like these
  9. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

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    In the original youth clip from California (the one in the podcast), that sure looks to me like a reckless foul by the attacker: charging the keeper. An argument could even be made that plowing full-tilt into the guy with the ball is a textbook example of excessive force. Can someone explain why it's not a foul at all? Because the keeper raises his arm to fend off the incoming attacker and leans in to avoid being knocked down? Because the attacker smashes his face into the keeper's arm and goes down with a possible head injury?

    My first thought from this clip is that the referee should signal advantage but stop play for safety reasons if play continues in the area of the injured player. Since play quickly moved to the far end of the field, I don't see what would have been gained by stopping play 10 seconds earlier and beckoning the loudmouth ("I'm not a doctor") coach onto the field.

    - QC
  10. ChomskyReferee

    ChomskyReferee Red Card

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    Yes exactly, it's advantage. I think stopping play makes sense especially in a youth club game.
  11. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

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    It was instructive watching Geiger stop play for head contact in the Mexico-Jamaica match.
    wykell repped this.
  12. usaref

    usaref Member

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    Absolutely. Even with the ball just outside the penalty area, Geiger didn't hesitate to stop play and quickly wave on medical staff in one of the 2 cases.
  13. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

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    First off, anybody should feel free to take the conversation wherever they please. This thread was just created to notify people of the podcast, not limit the discussion. I'm not really moderating it at all anyway.

    It's fine that people found the full clip on YouTube and posted it. It does have a lot of stuff happening in it... for the MNSRC podcast, I wanted to focus on the clip exclusively because (a) we feel the referee made the right no-call; (b) the referee should have halted the game because of the head injury (like Geiger did at Azteca); and (c) (and most importantly) the sequence we cut shows an explicit abuse of the situation by the coach to publicly denigrate the referee in a horribly irresponsible manner.

    One of our pushes in MN this year is to get referees to start reporting all abuse, no matter how public or private it may be. The one variable we can control in referee retention is wiping out the abuse of youth referees. This was a youth clip, so it fit perfectly into illustrating what we want referees to do. Yes, the referee should have stopped the match for the injury, but what the coach followed up with was utterly inappropriate and accomplished nothing.

    And, though I haven't seen it posted in the conversation after the original clip, the referee's unwillingness to deal with the coach and spectators harshly at the time unquestionably helped contribute to the disintegration of the match after that incident. But we didn't discuss that in the podcast, because I didn't want to distract from the main message of "Deal with this!"

    I believe somebody pointed out advantage, which was not called by the referee (or at least audibly enough to hear in the video). Is there advantage on a ball cleared out of the back? Well, not normally, as the subsequent long send by the keeper is no better than a 50-50 ball. But the referee is entitled to allow play to continue if he wants, because the foul did not deprive the goalkeeper of possession.
  14. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

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    Great stuff as always.

    Particularly liked your SFX for censoring the swearing. Reminds me of that high-pitch noise you'd hear when a station went off the air.

  15. Chas (Psyatika)

    Chas (Psyatika) Member

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    Exactly my first thought as well (mostly, anyway). My first instinct was:
    Signal advantage for GK's team (incorrectly), stop play when white heads it back in his direction. Of course, my instinct would have been wrong, as the head injury should override the advantage. I could "make up" for it by going back and giving a DFK to the goalkeeper's team where the contact occurred, and hope no assessors are watching!
    I'd also be thinking about a caution for the white player after he gets up and starts walking off the field (otherwise show it to the stretcher :eek:).
    If i'm dumb enough to hang around the injured player after calling for the coach, then the coach would end up being dismissed, but i'd like to assume that he wouldn't act like that while i'm standing 20+ yards away.
  16. SouthernYank

    SouthernYank Member

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    First off, sorry for bringing this back up now. Somehow missed this one a few weeks back.
    I understand that the Coach needs to be dismissed, but are you guys saying you would do it immediately? I’m dismissing him, but after he has his player off the field. It may be in 5 minutes, but what is going to happen to the game if the coach starts leaving while his player is down holding his head? Could that be seen as endangering the player even more, as in more time for the other coach to come out? I know you say bring on the Assistant, if they have one, but I think that is just throwing fuel on the fire. Or maybe it is going to blow up on you either way.
    So, assume that you are going to dismiss him. WHEN are you actually dismissing him?
  17. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

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    If you want to deter future behavior, the punishment must be associated with the actual actions. If you let him scream at you, then manage the player, then walk over and toss him, sure, the coach understands why he was tossed, but the players and the fans don't. That won't effectively manage the match atmosphere. One warning to tend to the player, he goes after you again, he's gone.

    Ref: Do you have an assistant?
    Coach: Yes, why?
    Ref: You are dismissed for irresponsible behavior. Please leave the field immediately, you are no longer permitted on the field or in its vicinity. (Turn to the assistant coach...) Coach? You are the new head coach, please tend to your injured player.

    If you know there is an assistant present, you can skip the question.

    OR

    Ref: Do you have an assistant?
    Coach: No.
    Ref: You are dismissed for irresponsible behavior. This match is terminated due to the lack of a certified adult to coach your team. (Then grab your crew and walk off the field.)
    nsa repped this.
  18. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    I tweeted about this podcast when it came out, every ref should watch this.

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