Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Gregoire, Apr 5, 2011.
Two greatest dribblers, two greatest talents and "enfants terribles". Who's better?
Since this has some relevance to what was being said over in the "Sir Stan" thread...
Based on what I have seen of each, which is obviously not much, I would rather have Best's skills/ability/talent than Garrincha's.
as for pure technical and dribling abilities i would say garincha but overall best was more complete so best is/was the better player.
i remember a documentary about garincha where djalma santos told that garincha had :"the mind of a child". meaning he was not totally normal in his brains. not undrstanding the game tactics etc etc.
for me garincha is the best rightwinger ever but george best i rate higher because he was a more complete player
You're right about them. I would rephrase that as individual talent Garrincha was a better "attacker" in term of dribbles, creating space and shoot to score. However, Garrincha was more like a "ONE dimensional player" type (forgive his innocent and naivety) while Best was a true comeplete player with intelligence and vision -
1- If your team needs a player to destroy opponents defense, creating havocs or score goals (FK, solo run) then Garrincha is the man
2- If your team needs a "visionary playmaker, creator" to help the team playing better and win, then Best is the right man.
In brief, Rivaldo was more of a Garrincha while Ronaldinho was more of a George Best
Here is a question.
Would Best be capable of doing everything Garrincha did for brazil in the 62'wc? Playing at that level?
And just to remember, Garrincha was the guy that took up the leadership of that team as best player after Pelé's injury. And Garrincha did everything in that world cup, goals from free-kick, header and with his left leg; great crosses and passes.
I'm just saying this because people tend to forget how complete Garrincha was, just remembering his dribbles and poor personal (life) choices sometimes.
Is it correct that Garrincha wasn't essentially a NT starter until the 1958 World Cup where he replaced the injured Joel?
I think I can answer that =]
In 1958, in the prepatory friendlies for the World Cup, Joel and Garrincha alternated... is difficult tell which was the main player between the two before competition. Maybe Joel.
Actually, Julinho would be called for the World Cup, but he refused because he thought unfair stay in place over players who played in Brazilian football. For this reason, they say, Garrincha was called.
Garincha not played the first two matches at the option of the coach, would prefer Joel to be more disciplined tactically.
For the game against the URSS, the histories say that the more experienced players met with the coach and demanded entry Pele and Garrincha on the team, in order to leave the team more offensive and brilliant. As far as I know, Joel wasn't injury.
Really? I couldnt disagree more..
Wasnt actually Best a more prolific scorer than Garrincha?
I am pretty sure I once saw a Brazilian fan over at XT say that Garrincha's performance in 1962 does not really reflect what he actually was as a footballer. One looks at his performances during the 1962 WC and might think he was a great goalgetter, able to score in every way possible. He was not a very prolific scorer and that was probably the only header he ever scored...
In my honest opinion, the only thing Garrincha could probably do better than Best was to beat his marker (left fullback) with his quick first step and cross the ball. At that he was probably unparalleled.
Garrincha's biography written by Ruy Castro 'Estrela solitaria: Um brasileiro chamado Garrincha'
points out that this in fact did not happen.
You are correct. All who were present in 1958 denied the version I said, although it is very famous. I didn't know Joel's injury... thanks for the link.
Does this apply to Pelé as well? I mean the whole thing didnt happen, or was it so that they did ask for Pelé but not for Garrincha?
The 'story' for Pele seems to be a bit different:
I'm pretty sure that he could not play every night like those performances from 62'wc. Just wanted to point that he could peak like that, in a whole tournament, not just one game.
Garrincha - Botafogo: 252 goals/609 games = 41,38%
Best - Manchester United: 181 goals/474 games = 38,18%
Garrincha was a nice scorer.
Ok, I see. But that might have to do with the fact that Best started his career at a quite earlier age than Garrincha and then quickly declined after turning 26...
Take Best's best five year period (from 67-68 to 71-72) and you get 126 goals in 266 overall games according to wiki
Take Garrincha's best five year period (likely from 58 to 62) and you get 50 goals in 156 overall games according to wiki.
So, while each (arguably) at their best, Garrincha averaged little less than a goal every third game while Best managed almost a goal every two games.
Then again, Im looking at wiki here... Where did you get teh 252 goals in 609 games stats anyways? Do you have it categorized by competition?
Usually the games/goals statistics for older brazilian players (sometimes even the players positions) are wrong/missing stuff in the EN wiki, so you have to check the PT (portuguese) wiki, or search in brazilian sites about soccer.
And no, i don't have his statistics for each year or by competition.
Maybe i'm really being biased, but i'm used to the discussion here in brazil (not by the popular voice, but by respectful soccer journalists that work for tvs like Espn, globo/sportv, band, etc.) about Pelé against Garrincha, so to compare Best (he is just the best left winger ever) is still a little weird to me. I think that's the problem to me.
This proves nothing but I'll do this any way.
IFFHS' Century Elections
8.Garrincha (Brazil) 624
16.George Best (N. Ireland) 187
Venerdì's All-Time Top-100 (100 Magnifici) - Italian magazine - 94 names elected
GARRINCHA - IN
BEST - not even mentioned
Guerin' Sportivo's I 50 Grandi del Secolo
13.Garrincha - "Il passerotto con le ali spezzate"
# Best - not in the 50-name list
Planète Foot's 50 Meilleurs Joueurs du Monde
GARRINCHA - IN
BEST - not even mentioned
World Soccer's Selection of the 100 Greatest Footballers of All Time
GARRINCHA - IN
BEST - IN
France Football's Football Player of the Century
12. Manoel Francisco dos Santos "GARRINCHA" (Brazil) 4
12. George BEST (Northern Ireland) 4
Placar's 100 Craques do Século - Brazilian magazine
27.GEORGE BEST (Northern Ireland)
Like any other kind of polls there are wrong judgment and biased votes, but I find it hard to this many different magazines be wrong about Garrincha and Best. But maybe Garrincha was just more popular, who knows.
George Best was a better dribbler IMO. He had better close control, much better balance (Garrincha had a dodgy leg which hindered him), was quicker with ball under control.
Garrincha had amazing acceleration though. He also had a very powerful shot with lots of curl.
Watching George Best dribble it really reminds me of Messi. Messi's dribbling style is more similar to Best than Maradona.
I would say Best was a better player. He would be a better player playing in today's game than Garrincha would.
MB, did I get it wrong or are you saying that serious, capable, knowledgeable journalists in Brazil argue who was better between Garrincha and Pelé?! Really?! No way!!
Anyways, I know Garrincha is almost always ranked higher than Best. And I am fine with it if we are talking about greatness. Greater is not always better in my opinion. But if there is one guy in history that might make the top10 (or close) of an all time best list here and there without any whatsoever country level career to show for, that guy is George Best.
Nobody says that Garrincha's career was better than Pele... but some believe that both were of the same level at the peak or Garrincha was better. And it is a fact that Garrincha, on WC62, led Brazil to the title. The comparison exists.
not really ... They both shared more or less the same goal rate ~0.4GPG club and 0.25GPG NT They were both starting out as classic winger ... and Best became more of a forward at near half end career (after ManU)
Best had good GPG at ManU in his best years/ Garrincha was supposed to be a great forward, but he stuck on the right flank (as per coach instruction) and he did well there but it limited his goal scoring power for he was not so good in reading games and no clue in tactics.
They both were great players and very good scorer too. I just felt that Garrincha had a better shooting skills than Best that's all.
I guess than something to play against Garricha's scoring ratio, is that he played moostly in a 4-men upfront line.
When he played in 3 FWs line, like in WC'62 he has more freedom to invade other spaces in the forward line. Something that Best could enjoy. IMO
Best is the most overrated player in history of football
really ? then please tell us why you think.
not only say this or that but also explanation please ??
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