GoalKeepers Passing in the Knighton

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by TheLostUniversity, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. TheLostUniversity

    TheLostUniversity Member+

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    As I watch Brad Knighton play like a world class keeper against the Galaxy, and keeping in mind the utter mediocrity of Mulletworth for the Revs, I go back to Nicol's decision to leave Brad unprotected in the expansion draft...... what the f*(k was he thinking?


  2. NFLPatriot

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    Wow, talk about revisionist history.
    Knighton only played 6 games here, in 2009. He had a 2.33 GAA, with zero shutouts.

    This year, Shuttleworth has played 7 games, with a 0.71 GAA and 3 shutouts.

    So, you knew back in 2009 that Knighton would be what he is today? You saw what Nicol failed to see? Impressive.
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  3. Crooked

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    I think there were a lot of people on these boards that thought Knighton was decent. My opinion didn't really change once he was cut from Philly either. He always seemed like he should be a borderline starter in this league.
  4. Crooked

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    A post of mine from May 2011: "I'd still rather pay Brad Knighton the minimum than pay Matt Reis nearly $200k, he's not worth the money."
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  5. Crooked

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    That GAA is flawed. He was in goal for the 6-0 massacre against RSL.
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  6. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    My frustration with the Knighton move was more based on terrible planning by the Revs than anything else. Hmm ... let's see, your starter is going to have surgery, so let's make his backup available to an expansion team. What could go wrong?

    And BTW, this has absolutely nothing to do with Preston Burpo (who we wound up getting in a desperation trade, as we needed to get rid of Ginger apparently, and needed a keeper). Class guy, and he was a good keeper for us while he was here.

    For those not in Montreal ... we did a cheer for Burpo post-game, and he was very appreciative about it. Pretty cool scene.
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  7. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

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    Should have made up a banner: "Belchertown, MA loves Preston Burpo!"
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  8. rkupp

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    I actually think Knighton of that year and Shuttleworth of this appear to be about the same level.

    And, as I've said a number of times this season, a number of good MLS starters were no better than Shuttleworth when they were backups. There's only so far you can develop until you start getting regular, first-team games.
    True, but he bore some responsibility too.
    No argument there. Similar to the Francis Okaroh debacle years earlier!
  9. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
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  10. abecedarian

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    I was on the fence about Shuttleworth, but the last couple of games, he showed a worrisome tendency to come out for balls that he ended up not getting. I think he's a pretty good shot stopper, but that's obviously not enough.

    That said, Knighton is not now, and never will be, the world-class keeper posited in the OP.
  11. RevsLiverpool

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    Agree with this - it's more about planning than talent. Knighton is a passable MLS keeper but really didn't think he was anything special in his limited appearances here.

    I do, however, remember the 6-0 debacle @RSL though.

    Exactly. Lots of revisionist history on this board.
  12. TheLostUniversity

    TheLostUniversity Member+

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    The answer to your question [1] is "Yes". Knighton was very young and raw then, but was very impressive in the quality of stops he made and his ability to read the game. Shuttleworth has impressed by his singular lack of either. He stops what every decent keeper is expected to stop, and then nothing more. He also spazzes in his decision making, at least once, each and every game. GAA is deceiving when you are that young. Guzan's, at Chivas USA, not so good. Yet the potential in Guzan was pretty clear. Let's take a bets, shall we, on who is going to make an impact on this league?
    The answer to your question [2] is "Dunno what Steve saw, but do know what he did". It may have been that Nicol did see his potential, and figured others didn't and it would be a sensible risk to leave him open for the taking. Or it may have been his thought that Knighton just wasn't worthy of the miserable salary he was being paid. But, in either case, the decision was a poor one.

    Now keep on revising that history, and marching forward ye brave New Ergonomic Patriot of the NFL. :rolleyes:
  13. burud111

    burud111 Member

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    Just going on record that I believe Knighton then was better than Shuttleworth now. Take it FWIW.
  14. Soccer Doc

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    Agree.
    Till Shuttleworth has a lot more game under his belt IMO the jury is out re his potential
  15. TheLostUniversity

    TheLostUniversity Member+

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    The Jury may be "out" but there has been no evidence presented in the matches he has played that he has the potential to even match what Knighton was with New England or Philadelphia, never mind what Knighton is becoming now that he has has some regularity of play in Vancouver. To think of him as one you might be able to bank on in the future, with any reasonable probability, is to be embracing self-delusion.
  16. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

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    I second that.

    I don't believe Shuttleworth is starting level caliber, but we're going to find out next season. I'm very confident Jay and the FO are comfortable with him as the number one keeper going forward.
  17. NFLPatriot

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    Fair enough. Keep in mind though, that Knighton couldn't beat out Chris Seitz in Philly, and they let him go as well, so it wasn't just Nicol.
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  18. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    Knighton will probably lose his gig in Vancouver then everyone will make excuses.

    Journeyman keeper at 25, or however old he is.
  19. TheLostUniversity

    TheLostUniversity Member+

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    Yup, it was also Nowak. He also kept McMath. Piotr can really add things up......That is probably not the company Nicol wants to keep when it comes to crafting a team.
  20. TheLostUniversity

    TheLostUniversity Member+

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    If he is a Journeyman keeper at 25, that makes him substantially better than Shuttleworth, who is at best an average USL keeper at 25.
  21. Soccer Doc

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    I don't think anyone, including Heaps thinks he's a clear choice as a keeper for a top tier team. That the Revs gave him all those starts at the end of the season says he was being given a tryout and the shortcomings that you and other point out were seen by Heaps et al as well. When I say the jury is out till he's had more games as an MLS starter I guess I have a bit more patience with respect to age and games played in call a ceiling with Keepers. Lets remember that Matt Reise was hidden in the shadows in LA till he was older than Shuttleworth. Do I think he will vere be Keeper of the Year? NO Do I think finding an upgrade at his position is in the top tier of needs? NO. Would I be uncomfortable with them taking the stud college keeper under discussion with the 4th pick? NO
  22. rkupp

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    I'm not sure what "evidence" you are looking for. At this point there's a pretty decent track record to compare them, as they've both played about the same number of minutes over the last 3+ seasons:

    Knighton: 1974 minutes, 29 goals against
    Shuttleworth: 1761 minutes, 29 goals against

    Current season:

    Knighton: 782 minutes, 7 goals against
    Shuttleworth: 630 minutes, 5 goals against

    Knighton is 2 years older and has 6 years pro experience, vs. 4 for Shuttleworth

    As for matching Knighton's record with NE, in their latest season with the Revs:

    Knighton: 540 minutes, 14 goals against
    Shuttleworth: 630 minutes, 5 goals against

    And, as for Shuttleworths potential, in the exact same # of minutes in 2011 and 2012, he improved from 15 goals against to 5 goals against. Better defense sure (and he was part of that), but Reis only improved from 43 goals against to 39. While Reis appears to be close to the same keeper he was in 2011, Shuttleworth improved dramatically.

    Shuttleworth has shown to be pretty good at reaction saves IMO. Most of the criticisms I hear and mistakes I've seen him make are just the kind of things that a keeper can and should improve on as he gets more experience and more playing time. I don't see any reason not to expect him to keep improving.
  23. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    although not keepers, the same was said about Mansally, Nyassi, Schilawski, Phelan and a few others. Some will argue Keepers peak in their late 20's but my own opinion is Shuttleworth will never be anything better than an MLS backup. My hope is that they do not go into the 2013 season with him penciled in as their #1 guy.
  24. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    Well this organization penciled in injured Twellman as a 2009 starter so when it comes to poor planning and bad decisions they are more than capable of anything.
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  25. Kraft Out

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    A few others? haha I'm pretty sure he has said the same thing for anyone under the age of 28 on this team over the last 5 years.

    Don't forget the famous "American players develop later" nonsense mantra

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