GOP Failure Watch Part III

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    You are ridiculous. Money influencing our politics has been the primary problem for decades now. If you want to solely blame politicians, then have at it. But that would be foolish. To date, I have only ignored vfish and it has made reading these boards much more pleasant and tolerable. You add enough to the discussion normally, that I wouldn't want to include you, but when you get on your one-trick pony tangents, or absolve those who are pulling the puppet strings and only blame the puppets, then the value of what you add is truly called into question.


  2. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    Well, you started by putting the blame on someone who has yet to do anything bad (but surely will if he is given the chance), without mentioning people who have actually contributed to the problem.

    I don't claim that money doesn't influence politicians. Of course it does. And it's becoming a bigger problem all the time, which I think is due to a simple reason: the federal government is getting bigger. All the laws in the world won't reduce money in politics, the only way to do that is to reduce the federal government so the "prize" of winning is worth less. That's how you address the puppet masters.

    But all the money in the world wouldn't matter if we elected saints to office. But that's not who these races attract. They attract the opposite of that.

    But they bear the responsibility of their decisions.
  3. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

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    Yes. they legislate in a vacuum, free of input and influence. The 1% simp0ly dont have greater access to lawmakers than you and I. Nope. Not at all.
  4. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    Read my post above. Of course they do.


  5. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

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    But it can be a burden too, y'know...

    Well.... probably :eek: :D
  6. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

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    Like most of the so-called "libertarians" who are currently soiling that mantle, Shakey only blames "government" for all problems. The private sector is never to blame for anything to these people. It's all "the government's" fault. It must be so simple and less strenuous to have such a prepubescent belief system.
    Matrim55 and GiuseppeSignori repped this.
  7. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    This is, um, not accurate.

    The private sector causes plenty of problems. For instance, any fraud committed by the Wall Street titans that helped get us in the mess we're in should be prosecuted.

    Which candidate do you think will do that? Mitt Romney? Nope. Barack Obama? Well, we know his record, so zero chance. Libertarian Gary Johnson? Well, his chance is greater than zero, so he's ahead of Obama.
  8. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

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    Meanwhile, in reality...
  9. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, obviously even if he does tell us what they will eliminate, we can't really trust anything politicians say before an election, and Romney has shown to be a candidate who'll say anything to get elected.

    But having said that, I can't imagine how Romney or anybody else would propose a plan to simplify the tax code unless it takes away some of the loopholes for the wealthy. I may be somewhat cynical about Romney's sincerity in terms of what he promises, but even if he didn't give a shit about regular Americans -which I think to some extent he does, and most everybody who runs for office does even if we don't agree with their ideas and philosophy - I think it would be politically untenable to propose such a plan, let alone have get enough votes in both houses of congress. Without dealing with those loopholes, any tax simplification proposal would be dead on arrival, and Romney surely has to know this when he proposes simplifying the taxes.

    I think a simpler explanation is that we do in fact need to simplify the tax code, and that Romney recognizes this, even though it may adversely affect him personally.
  10. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

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    Counter-example: On Meet the Press today, he said he would keep both the "previous conditions" and the "on your parents plan" parts of the ACA, while getting rid of the mandate. As you (and Romney) know full well (but most Americans don't), that's politically and economically untenable. So why did he say it? Because it's what he and his staff think people want to hear.

    See also, tax reform.
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  11. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

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    I agree that money has a negative influence on elections.

    Obama has changed the calculus by shunning big money donors and co-opting the media.

    The media is entirely in the bag for Obama, and they came cheap.

    Congrats to the Obama team for figuring out which morally bankrupt tactic actually works best and capitalizing on it.
  12. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

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    Serious question, how exactly would you propose that Obama did that?
  13. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    Trial and error? Not an outrageous theory, we know the media is extremely deferential to people in power.
  14. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

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    He appealed to their predisposition. Are you seriously questioning that the media is actively supporting him?

    There is a great article in The New Yorker about how much Obama hates dealing with rich Dem donors. A lot of them were offended when they came to the White House for a party and he refused to do to "grip and grin" photos with them, but he took pictures with the WH press corps. You can't put a price tag on the influence the press has.
  15. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

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    I question whether it's even possible. The media's view is exactly as quantifiably varied as the number of people who work in the media. Furthermore, if he's found some way of getting the media to support him, then he should patent that shit and sell it to the highest bidder.
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

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    Which loopholes?
  17. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    That's not important right now
  18. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

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    He can't be expected to decide on that until after he's seen his tax return, surely?
  19. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

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    One somehow gets the sense it will never be important.......

    Apparently he has said that he doesn't want to name the loopholes early so that the "special interests" won't line up to oppose them. I think that's how we should draft all legislation from now on - let's not tell anyone so that they don't have a chance to oppose it. It's brilliant!
  20. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

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    Nevermind. You are totally clueless. Or ignorant. You pick.
  21. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    Yes, because as we all know irrationally ranting about an Obama-media conspiracy makes you a genius.
  22. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

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    Sure, he'll close some loopholes that benefit the wealthy, but with the reduction in tax rates, the wealthy will still come out ahead. Whereas the reduction in tax rates for the middle class won't offset the increase in taxes caused by eliminating the loopholes. The biggest "loopholes" or "tax expenditures" or whatever you want to call them are for stuff like the mortgage interest deduction, making employer sponsored health benefits non-taxable, etc. that largely benefit the middle class. Everything I've read indicates that to make his tax cut plan revenue neutral, Romney would have to go after this kind of "loophole."
  23. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

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    Fox is no longer part of the media?
  24. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    Thank you for your views Alonso 13.
  25. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

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    Let's humor roadkit and pretend he's not being an idiot.

    Remember how Obamedia trolled the nation by putting out the Rev Weight video?



    On the other hand, I can see how less informed people, especially ones who were disappointed about Hillary Clinton's loss, can come to the conclusion. And I think the media generally liked the idea of reporting on a historic election and the enrgy around his campaign was something reporters enjoyed.

    But ultimately the Obama campaign simply had more good news than bad (an they dealt with the inevitable gaffes better), while the McCain cmpaign was mostly bad news.
    GiuseppeSignori repped this.

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