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How Come Ryan Giggs Never Won Top 20 of Ballon'Dor In Any Year ?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Dearman, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

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    Ryan Giggs is highly regarded as the great legendary winger of all-time. He won so many trophies with Man Utd. He is also the best left-winger of the world during late 1990s to early 2000s.

    It is incredible he never been voted even top 20 of ballon'dor in any year.

    Is he really a world-class player in your opinion ?
     


  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    He was a bit of a sensation as a youngster in the early 90's, being constantly hailed as the new George Best (although he wasn't an absolute replica of him in style he was very quick and a great dribbler). He won the English PFA Young Player of the Year Award in 1991/92 and 1992/93 and was probably along with Cantona one of Man Utd's main star players when they won the League and FA Cup double in 93/94. He played mainly left-wing in a 4-4-2 in the 90's and was more of a provider than goalscorer probably but he did score some great goals.
    This compilation shows some of his best goals:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEAouJwTYlU"]YouTube - Ryan Giggs -Top 11 Goals[/ame]
    11. Coventry City - 28 December 1992
    10. Juventus - 1 October 1997
    9. Juventus - 25 February 2003
    8. Leeds United - 27 April 1994
    7. Chelsea - 21 October 1995
    6. Coventry City - 18 January 1997
    5. Manchester City - 6 April 1996
    4. Barnsley - 25 October 1997
    3. QPR - 5 February 1994
    2. Tottenham Hotspur - 19 September 1992
    1. Arsenal- 14 April 1999
    He scores a great second goal in this game at Liverpool in 1994 too:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxCx1oDEoZs"]YouTube - 1994-01-04 - Liverpool 3-3 Manchester United - Sky Sports Classics[/ame]
    He did make the top 10 of the Balon D'or rankings in 1993 actually:
    1. Roberto Baggio Italy Juventus 142 26 3 - - - 29
    2. Dennis Bergkamp Netherlands Internazionale 83 1 12 6 5 2 26
    3. Eric Cantona France Manchester United 34 1 3 3 3 2 12
    4. Alen Boksic Croatia Lazio Roma 29 - 2 6 1 1 10
    5. Michael Laudrup Denmark FC Barcelona 27 1 3 3 - 1 8
    6. Franco Baresi Italy Milan AC 24 1 3 2 - 1 7
    7. Paolo Maldini Italy Milan AC 19 - - 3 4 2 9
    8. Emil Kostadinov Bulgaria FC Porto 11 - - 1 3 2 6
    9. Stéphane Chapuisat Switzerland Borussia Dortmund 9 - - 1 2 2 5
    Ryan Giggs Wales Manchester United 9 - - 1 2 2 5
    11. Andreas Möller Germany Juventus 7 - 1 1 - - 2
    12. Ruud Gullit Netherlands Sampdoria 6 - 1 - - 2 3
    Peter Schmeichel Denmark Manchester United 6 - 1 - 1 - 2
    Hristo Stoichkov Bulgaria FC Barcelona 6 - - - 2 2 4
    15. Basile Boli France Olympique Marseille 5 - 1 - - 1 2
    Rune Bratseth Norway Werder Bremen 5 - - - 2 1 3
    17. Enzo Scifo Belgium AS Monaco 4 - - 1 - 1 2
    18. Andreas Herzog Austria Werder Bremen 3 - - 1 - - 1
    Ronald Koeman Netherlands FC Barcelona 3 - - 1 - - 1
    Jari Litmanen Finland Ajax 3 - - - - 3 3
    21. Dino Baggio Italy Juventus 2 - - - 1 - 1
    Sergei Kiriakov Russia Karlsruhe 2 - - - 1 - 1
    David Platt England Sampdoria 2 - - - 1 - 1
    Franck Sauzée France Atalanta Bergamo 2 - - - 1 - 1
    Giuseppe Signori Italy Lazio Roma 2 - - - 1 - 1
    26. Tomas Brolin Sweden Parma 1 - - - - 1 1
    Martin Dahlin Sweden Borussia M’Gladbach 1 - - - - 1 1
    Georges Grün Belgium Parma 1 - - - - 1 1
    Stelios Manolas Greece AEK Athens 1 - - - - 1 1
    Paul McGrath Ireland Aston Villa 1 - - - - 1 1

    I think I'd have him higher up in other years too such as 1997 and 1999 and I think I'd rate him the best left-winger in the early to mid-90's on the basis neither Laudrup normally played left-wing (Michael might be ahead of Giggs even as a left-winger). I'd put him ahead of the likes of Overmars, Futre (who peaked in 80's probably anyway), a young Pires (though I didn't see that much of him - he did play as a right-winger often I think) and the likes of Signori and Donadoni who could play very well as left-wingers.

    He's continued to be a very good player and won the Player of the Year Award in England in 2008/2009. His passing may have even improved over the years but I'd say his peak was in the 90's. Not everyone agrees with the Balon D'or rankings (even the winners/top few) of course but he was probably worthy of a top 10 place a few times (remember International Championships often play a big part in the voting and that only 5 players are voted for by each voter, not 20 for example, and that the voters won't have always seen very much of some players).

    Is he world class? - Like Zico, Cruyff, Baggio - no. Among the best players of his time and worthy of consideration for a world XI at times - yes.
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

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    Your opinion is very impressive for me and I'm wrong that Giggs actually won in 1993. But still, The main idea of question should be gone on. His best year should not be 1993 and the rest years that Man Utd dominate English league as one of teh best teams in the europes never had his name in top 20 Ballon'Dor.

    World-Class player is not essential to be as class as Cruyff, Messi or Ronaldinho. Overath won 4 world-class years by kicker ranking. This is something I'd like to apply this level to giggs.
     
  4. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    His legendary reputation comes more from his longevity and consistency than peak play.
    There are very few players in football history that were an important part (altough rarely/never the most important) for a worldclass club like Manchester United has been from the arrival of Giggs until now for 20 seasons.

    Honestly I can't think of a year where I would consider him a Top 10 player worldwide - Top 20 maybe.
     


  5. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

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    Giggs has had the likes of Cantona, Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo and Rooney grabbing the headlines, while he has just quietly gone about being a great player in his own right.
    I agree with schwuppe, that he probably has never been one of the elite over a one or two year spell, but when people look back at his career after he has retired they will recognise that it does take something very special to have played at the level he has played at for 20+ years.
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    First of all, WORDCLASS is just a label, not really a "title" or trophy. I am not sure Gigg would be the "best left winger" of that decade 90-2000!
    If a player could maintain his "world class" for more than 7 to 10 years in career, he will be automatically a legend -

    Giggs was arguably a worldclass in his few peak years, 93,94, 98 ...
    Overall he has been a very good player and very very consistent, but not an "elite" or "superstar" type, in style/talent.

    In order to achieve the TOP10 of WPOY or Ballon D'or you have to be "dominant" factor over the course of season and/or proven great in beig events like WC/Euro/UCL ... Gigg was more of a team player who contributed good but not a "dominant type" of the games -
     
  7. Sildegil

    Sildegil New Member

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    Not good enough.

    Nevertheless, a resilient and talented squad player.
     
  8. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

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    Hahaha...thanks for the laugh.:D
     
  9. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

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    1993: 10th
    2009: 14th

    Who else has had such a range in years in getting into the top 20?
     
  10. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    That's more of a career 'reward'.

    Seriously, Giggs wasn't even close to be the 14th best player in Europe in 2008/09.
     
  11. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    ya i was gonna say, no way giggs was top 20 in 2009 year, i dont even think he played full matches
     
  12. Manolo

    Manolo Moderator Staff Member

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    Surely it hurt that he never achieved anything at the international level due to playing for a small country. Had he played and starred for England it could have been a vastly different story.
     
  13. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

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    George Weah?
     
  14. aguimarães

    aguimarães Member

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    Flash over substance (too bad.) Maybe if Giggs taken a few pointers from CRonaldo.
     
  15. Terrace Fan

    Terrace Fan Member

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    I understand everybody has their own opinions but the people that voted for him are European journalists who probably watch more live football in a season than most people do in a lifetime.

    To state that their opinions are wrong and that he "wasn't even close to be[sic] the 14th bets player in Europe" is either just a complete wind-up and if it is I've jumped right in or a massive underappreciation of the talents of the player in 2008/9.

    These same journalists who presumably place quite a large emphasis on perormances in Europe will have seen him play almost every game for United in their run to the final a run.

    To say that this was just a career reward is doing a ridiculous disservice to his role in that run to the final and to United's title triumph.
     
  16. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    You're freakin kidding me right now ....
    Manchester United fan right?

    You might remember that Giggs started on the bench a lot in 08/09 and got subbed in 13 times out of 28 PL games he played.

    Giggs was #95 on Four Four Two Top 100 players list in 08/09.
    The six ManUtd players ahead of him where Rooney, CR, Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic and Berbatov.

    Would love to hear how Giggs - who played ~2700 mins compared to ~4500 mins the other six played - was more important to ManUtd sucess than any of those.

    Would you take Giggs in 08/09 ahead of
    Messi, C. Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Torres, Villa, Gerrard, Rooney, Eto'o, Lampard, Ibrahimovic, Drogba, Arshavin, Casillas, Dani Alves or Maicon just to name some players from the top of my head?


    In case you don't know who actually votes for the Ballon d'or (it kind of sounds like that):

    a) 53 UEFA voters: Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, England, Estonia, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Montenegro, the Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Ireland, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Scotland, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, and Wales. b) 13 Africa voters: Angola, Algeria, Cameroon, Congo D.R., Egypt, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Nigeria, Senegal, South Africa, Togo, and Tunisia c) 10 CONCACAF voters: Canada, Costa Rica, Cuba, El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica,Mexico, United States, and Trinidad Tobago. d) 9 Conmebol voters: Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, and Uruguay. e) 9 Asia voters: China, Irak, Iran, Japan, Kuwait, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, and United Arab Emirates f) 2 Oceania voters: Australia, and New Zealand.

    Giggs recieved votes from 5 jury members.

    1 x 2nd
    1 x 3rd
    1 x 4th
    2 x 5th
     
  17. Terrace Fan

    Terrace Fan Member

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    Right, you have mentioned 16 players - off the top of your head, Giggs was in the top 20 - in 14th.

    To say Arshavin had more impact in 2008/9 than Giggs did, is fairly laughable. Arshavin played a whole two games more than Giggs in all competitions and half as many times in Europe. Arshavin played 49 to Giggs 47 with the majority of these in Russia and none beyond January in Europe.

    And you putting Casillas there isn't a career award: given that his side went out of the 2nd round of the Champions League, were off the pace in La Liga and he conceded 5 agaisnt Liverpool over the two legs that knocked Real out...

    Maicon in 2008/9 played considerably less games than Giggs.

    Torres scored 17 goals in 38 games in 2008/9.

    So just based around your idea of minutes played rather than actual impact or ability he has done better than four of those players who were clearly (as you can name them off the top of your head) having better seasons than Giggs in 2008/9.

    To also conclude that his appearance in this list was solely down to his Premier League appearances is also misguided and one-eyed. He played 11 games in the Champions league and reached the final, not bad I'd say and a lot better than most of the names on your list.

    Add to that his impact to a faily young United squad (squad not team) which often lacked leadership and you can see why some journalists from around the world voted for him.

    Ok so the journalists are international journalists but they aren't just some dullard picking a player off the top of his head, they (admittedly hopefully) make a conscious decision on who to pick. They went with Giggs, but apparantly not because of the impact that he had to United's season, it's because he has been around for a long time and the poor lad hasn't won much!
     
  18. rockys2g

    rockys2g New Member

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    Because he has no exposure on the World scene. You don't see Giggs playing any high profile International fixtures. It's ashame that only people who follow the English Premier League have really witnessed his talents
     
  19. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

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    You're right. No-one outside of England watches the Premier League.:rolleyes:
     
  20. condor11

    condor11 Moderator Staff Member

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    Champions league gets you world wide exposure year after year these days

    going far in the CL 4 times in a row = more world wide exposure than a WC these days
     
  21. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

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    He made no reference whatsoever to the location or citizenship of the EPL fan.
     
  22. GranCanMan

    GranCanMan Member

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    Maybe Giggs never had a peak like those of Ronaldinho, Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo, Kaka, but that's missing the point. He's perhaps the level below in terms of consistant form and ability maybe, but his biggest achievement is that he's kept it going for 20 years. You look at Ronaldinho who was brilliant for maybe 5 years between 2002 and 2006, but has faded badly since then. 5 years, compared to Giggs' 20. It's a different ball game, surely? Not as high at the highest peaks, but Giggs has never suffered a fall from grace like Ronaldinho has recently, and if Messi does 20 years at the top of his profession like Giggs has, then I'll be bl00dy Prime Minister. To play at any level for 20 years is a remarkable achievement. To do it at the level Giggs has for the last 20 years is truly outstanding, and that's where his real merit lies. Both him and Scholes have found levels of consistancy that other professionals can only dream of. To have started in the early 90's, when football was a very different game to the one it is today, and to still be playing in 2010 and still holding his own not only shows remarkable staying power, but wonderful adaptability as well. The game today is far more athletic than it was 20 years ago, but despite his increasing age, Giggs has never looked out of his depth, even when sharing the field with the best players in the world, and that is something he is to be commended for. No one can take that away from him, or the club for that matter. His attitude has been absolutely exemplary from start to finish. This is some who, despite chronic injury problems at the start of his career which looked like they might result in an early retirement, has altered every aspect of his lifestyle to ensure that this was not the case. He's as hungry as ever for the game and the success it brings. It's not just his skills and professionalism that deserve mention, but his mental attitude as well. He just keeps going, and down the years, while his legs have slowed, other aspects of his game have improved immeasurably. His corssing and ability to spot a pass and make it are ten times better than they were when he started 20 years ago.

    The guy is a modern day legend. Maybe not an all time great, in terms of ability, but in terms of durability and all round success, there are very few who can maych him, especially in todays game.
     
  23. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    Firstly start by defining World Class. Secondly who was a better left-winger between 1990-2000.

    Giggs was the best player in the world in his position for a decade, with only intermittent challengers to his crown (Ginola in his pomp at PSG and then 1998-9 for Spurs, Overmars at his best, Pires around 2001-2). The thing is though that Giggs is still going.

    Squad player? Giggs is probably the best player in the history of the Premier League. His consistent level of excellence puts him among the very best.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Yeah actually when I talked about the early to mid-90's on page 1 I should've mentioned Ginola. I actually think he merited a mention based on his time at Newcastle, around 95-97 especially. Although I'd still have rated Giggs a bit ahead at that time generally there may have been a season (or two) where it could be argued Ginola could be ranked above him based on his play throughout that season.
     
  25. nicktoe

    nicktoe Member

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    this must be the biggest mystery in football ever,a truely world class performer
     
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