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I'm in an abusive relationship with Bill Hamid.

Discussion in 'DC United' started by Liam O'Malley, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Liam O'Malley

    Liam O'Malley Member

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    I feel like I have to be brave to even talk about it, because Bill Hamid might find out.

    It seems to me that ever since Hamid became a starting keeper for us, his position was locked and beyond question. The only time he's ever sat is when injured, or on suspension, iirc.

    You don't question Bill Hamid's place because he's Bill Hamid. If he fucks up, it's not because he's not great, it's only just cause he's young or he's still learning and think of the potential he has! But he's also so aggressive and athletic so somehow that makes up for it. You don't think about other keepers because he's Bill Hamid. You don't talk about other keepers ever seriously getting the starting spot over him because he's Bill Hamid. Europe wants Bill Hamid, so you know you love him too, because clearly he's just that good. You're lucky to have Bill Hamid. Even the USMNT wants Bill Hamid, so you better be thankful that you have him. For now. After all, Bill Hamid could leave you any time. So you better be good to Bill Hamid while he's here and still wants you.

    Bill Hamid has trouble with consistency. His bright moments are very bright, and their brilliance has a tendency to brighten even his worst showings. And in many, even most, cases where he gives up goals, there are usually some other people to blame. The problem, for me, is that a good keeper should be responsible for precisely those times when everybody else has already screwed up. That's *exactly* when they need to be clutch. The goals that Bill lets in, it's easy to say - where was Russell? Or what was McDonald thinking? But a real amazing keeper - the kind that everyone seems to believe Hamid is - should be using those very particular moments to shine.

    What's it going to take to get Willis off the bench again? Will we ever see him start if Bill doesn't get another injury? Olsen has shown that he's willing to entertain a decent amount of rotation this year, even if he can be slow to enact it, but I am struggling to recall a single time that he has sat Bill on account of performance.

    Willis has had bad games. And his bright moments maybe aren't so bright as Bill's. But I find myself feeling far more comfortable with Joe in the net, as if his style is just more settling and I can count on him more, whereas with Bill I really never know what I'm going to get out of him.

    I still love you, Bill... but if I'm not allowed to even see to any of my other friends while we're still together, it's going to put a real strain on our relationship.
     


  2. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

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    I agree that Hamid has his flaws and I do like Willis. But, I can't see how his recent performances would justify a benching. Last night especially, he kept us in the game despite the fact that the rest of the team had no interest in keeping possession of the ball.
     
  3. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

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    Funny.

    I'm with you, to a certain extent. Hamid seems a little slow, his footwork is suspect and the first and second goals flew so close to him they almost hit him. Now, both were struck with ferocious pace so I can see where it would be difficult to criticize him there.

    I think he will continue to improve and he's pretty good as it is. What I'm not sure he'll ever have is the split second reactions of a world class keeper. That's okay, though, he can still get the job done.

    Willis is just a step below Hamid, imo, so not too bad there, either. Of course I'll never know, but I honestly believe Willis would have had both of those first two goals, at least gotten a good chunk. He's bigger and, imo, stronger. Willis is a little timid in his communication and decision making, imo, if he straightens that out he'll be a good starter for any team in MLS.
     
  4. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

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    This. IMHO, the problem was not Hamid, but DC players (midfield & defense) not marking or following runners. It would have been sweet if he could have kept at least one of those goals out, but this loss was not on him.

    I am still irritated by his lack of distribution skills, though. One doesn't start the alleged "possession game" by kicking 50/50* balls downfield, every time he gets the ball. I think we could really have a "possession game" with a back line of Woolard - Dudar - Jakovic - Najar.



    *50/50 balls, in theory. What usually happens is that either the opposing GK gets the ball (because it was kicked too far), or the opposing defenders get the ball (because there are 3 or 4 of them marking our lone attacker, up top).
     


  5. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    He does alright, even last night he was first looking to roll the ball out to feet. but if you were Hamid last night, given the absolute failure of the midfield to close down service and of the entire team to hold the ball would you want it 30 yards out or 70 yards out?

    Bill doing a solid job for a young keeper and Willis also makes youthful mistakes.
     
  6. Liam O'Malley

    Liam O'Malley Member

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    I guess. I can hardly be upset when we are coming off four wins and we lose by a margin of one goal. But this -

    - is how I feel about it also.

    I'm not horribly upset about last night, it's a loss we can suffer at this point, but I don't really feel like Hamid 'kept us in the game' because I don't really feel we were in the game for most of the night. There's certainly blame to go around and I know we had a lot of trouble in midfield. And I don't think the loss was on him either. But at the same time, he was -right there- on both of Barklage's goals. And he gave up a ton of really scary rebounds last night, too. The game wasn't without a couple impressive saves but for the most part I just find myself holding my breath and praying when it comes to Hamid. I don't feel the same way about Willis, for whatever reason.

    I don't know that his recent performances justify benching him. Probably not, really. But what would it take? I know Ben was dying for any opportunity to get Hamid back in goal during Willis' stint earlier this year, and I find myself feeling pretty much that same way only in reverse now.
     
  7. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    WHAAAAAA? Really? From last night?

    I feel like Hamid is clearly quicker than Willis, so please tell me if you disagree with that assessment and then how would Willis have stopped the first goal; by coming out to claim the driven corner 8 yards off his line, or by somehow stopping the shot that Hamid did not even react to until it was past him? And on the 2nd, you really think a (I feel) slower Willis would have been able to get down and block a low volleyed ball that hit the far side netting?

    Liam, he gave up a tone of scary rebounds yes, on shots that were blasted at him from close range. I'm worried about Bill developing PTSD from last night.
     
  8. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

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    I wouldn't describe either keeper as quick. Difference is negligible. The reason I believe Willis would have gotten a good chunk of the first two goals is: on the first one, he's bigger and therefore takes up more space, the ball was hit literally right next to Hamid, and on the second, he's bigger with longer arms and if you'll notice on the replay, although the ball ended up in the side netting, it skipped inches from Hamid's face, his arms were once again too slow to react. Even if Willis had the same slow reaction time (I believe he has quicker hands and has shown that in the games he's played), just the fact that he's bigger would've gotten a chunk of the ball.

    I think if you watch Willis earlier this season, you might change your mind about the quickness of his hands versus that of Hamid. Hamid has many good qualities, but quick hands is not one of them, proven by the goals that go whizzing by at a close proximity to his body. If it's by his feet, he stands a much better chance.

    Just my opinion, could be wrong. If I can find the time, I'll rewatch some things to see if I'm imagining this.
     
  9. blockski

    blockski Member

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    Putting either of those Barklage goals on Hamid is crazy. The first was an unmarked header point-blank. The second was a rocket volley that Hamid almost got a hand on (he was going back to his left after following the track of the free kick that was heading to his right before the wall got it).

    I can see the idea of expecting more on the first one, but the second - no goaltender was going to stop that one without a little luck of the shooter missing the target and hitting the goalkeeper. His positioning was fine.
     
  10. DCUSA

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    I'm not 'putting them on him'. The second one I tend to agree with you, it was a rocket. He got down well, so credit to him. However, his hands were too slow to get the ball. You might think no one gets that ball, but I disagree, that's all. You can call it crazy, I guess. The first goal wasn't a header, it was a volley that surprised Hamid and almost hit him, so that, to me, was disappointing.
     
  11. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    slo mo is a wonderful thing isn't it? Have you ever had a ball like that hit at you? I do agree that the 2nd seemed more savable, but I still don't think it was, and I think willis would have had less chance of getting a piece of it.

    I admit it, I curl up and scream like a 3 year old girl. But I can't do it until the ball is well past me.
     
  12. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

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    Sure, I've taken a ball hit like that directly in the throat. What that has to do with a discussion about professional soccer players is lost on me.
    Perhaps I've overstated the likelihood of the second goal being saveable, but I stand by the first one being one I think Willis gets.
     
  13. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    oh wait, I edited it to agree with you on something we apparently don't actually agree on. ah well.

    Even professional athletes have limits on their ability to react.
     
  14. blockski

    blockski Member

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    If you're not putting them on Bill, you're implying he could have done better, yes? Aside from the innate desire any pro athlete has to improve, I'm not sure what else should be expected of a professional in those cases, however. So that leaves me confused as to what the criticism really is.

    You're right on the first one, it wasn't off the head, it was out of the air. That said, it was a surprising shot. He was in position, just couldn't react in time. That's a tough one for any keeper, however.

    For the second, not only was it a rocket of a volley, but Hamid's momentum is carrying him to his left and the shot goes to his right. He had the angles covered pretty well. All things considered, there were only a handful of shots that could beat him in that position, and Barklage just happened to have one of those.
     
  15. DCUSA

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    Just watched that first goal again and it was even worse than I remembered it. Right down the heart of the goal and Hamid's arms are at his side until it was past him. Too slow, like he wasn't ready. So while I'll put that one on DeRo or whoever should have picked up Barklage, I definitely believe Hamid should have done better.
     
  16. Murr

    Murr Member

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    Blame the defense for not marking players. Been the problem for weeks, we finally played a team that could punish us for it.

    Relax people, just one loss; Ben's got this.
     
  17. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    He had to watch the flight of the ball, of course he wasn't ready for that shot. Do me a favor, watch at normal speed, take out your stopwatch, and get the time from when the ball contacted Hamid's foot until it hit the back of the net...now that time is about 150% of the time from contact to crossing the line...I knew when and where it was coming and had difficulty moving MY THUMB twice fast enough to start and stop (I got .2 seconds). You apparently want Hamid to follow the flight of the ball, pick up a runner who is sprinting from in back of and behind the defender in his view, see the contact, recognize which side the ball is going to and move his arm to that spot.

    in about .14 seconds

    by comparison a batter has about .4 seconds to hit a 100mph pitch and they know where the pitch is coming from and roughly where it will be going, so they get to start moving in advance (imagine hitting that ball if there were a strike zone behind the batter as well)

    http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/reaction-time-for-baseball-hitters/

    y'all are just amazing sometimes.
     
  18. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

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    Meh. Just watching some Joe Cannon and Kevin Hartman highlights on YouTube. Both of those guys make that save. There are some good examples of the ball unpredictably changing direction at pace from very close range, saved. Some of it is quickness, but also they were at the ready, hands not laying at their sides, standing flat footed.

    The fact that you think that shot was just beyond saving is funny to me. As I said in my initial response, I think Hamid is a good goalie, but his hands and his reactions in general are slower than I would like. I stand by that.

    I always wish there was someone who knew what they were talking about (that's not me or anyone else here as far as I know) to chime in on players and their strengths and weaknesses. I wonder what Pat Onstad thinks about Hamid, that would be interesting.
     
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  19. YellowSpine

    YellowSpine Member

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    Hamid - $70k/year
    Willis - $44k/year

    Both seem like a good bargain.
     
  20. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

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    For anyone that thinks Willis could of made those saves, do yourself a favor and look at the highlights from San Jose game. Three of those goals went right by Willis's hands, and those shots were from further out without all the sightline blocking traffic in front of goal.

    My opinion is that those two Barklage goals were perfect hits from unlikely scenarios. The first one was off of a corner with a very unusual trajectory. Barklage really just stuck out a hopeful foot and the shot took a perfect direction. The second one was a perfect volley from a fortuitous deflection.

    I won't go out of my way to blame anyone on those 2 goals, except maybe that we shouldn't be giving up so many set pieces near our goal
     
  21. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

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    No.
    I'll give you the first goal, only because the angle doesn't show how close it was to Willis, but yes, it looked like he reacted late. The second, Wondo was literally alone two feet in front of him. The third was deflected by Danny Cruz directly in front of Willis. The fourth he got a good piece of despite the fact Wondo was no further than Barklage was and it was at Willis' head level, as opposed to somewhere between Hamid's chest and waist in Barklage's goal. The fifth goal came off the crossbar and was touched in uncontested on the rebound.

    Sightline blocking traffic? There was no one or anything blocking Hamid's sightline from the ball to the goal, whereas on Lenhart's goal there was.
     
  22. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

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    IMO, there's only one GK in the entire league that I would even consider trading straight up for Hamid and he's 35 years old. In other words, put down the hash pipe (or better yet, stop bogeying it.)
     
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  23. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

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    yeah, well they don't show the goals allowed in highlight videos, do they?
     
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  24. DCUSA

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    Hash pipe? Cocaine? Is this me twenty years ago? We gotta talk.
     
  25. dcu n bntwn

    dcu n bntwn Member

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    Hamid vs. Willis is interesting to think about.

    Judging by the games this season, I did get a sense that Willis has better hands. Hamid is more aggressive and athletic. Both do well with positioning, but both are young and make errors.

    The intro to this thread creates a tone. It suggests that Hamid is starting for reasons other than Benny and Pat feel he is the better keeper. Do we have any evidence for this?


    You see where I'm going. The coaches see both of them daily. Maybe Hamid actually just looks like the better keeper.
     

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