Is it arrogant for Brazil to think it can win the world cup?

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by SweetLife, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. SweetLife

    SweetLife Red Card

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    No Striker and no Goalkeeper! The best teams in Europe don't have these issues. Can packed stadiums overcome this deficit? I believe if you don't solve this issue in 2 years it will be like the Olympics again.


  2. Daniel96

    Daniel96 Member

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    No, I think there going to win it.
    The only thing Brazil lack is a #9 striker like ronaldo/romario... If Pato wasnt injury-prone i think Brazil would of had a very good chance winning it... Pato had potential to be the best #9 today, he is fast unlike falcao and rvp.
    But if Neymar plays his best during 2014 world cup I do think they still have a chance of winning.
    By the way Pato has recovered from his 6 week injury, so if he can stay fit and get back into form i would like to see him in Brazil 2013 confederation cup squad.
  3. reckless_mf

    reckless_mf Member

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    Yes but his shooting ability is nowhere near Van Persie. In terms of pure shooting technique Van Persie is probably the best in the world. He can shoot from any angle, off balance, volleys. He's like Trezeguet but with ball skills and more to his game.

    I think Brazil will get to the semi finals minimum like any decent host has. However it might be a bit too early for this young team.
  4. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    It is not arrogant to they can win it, as they belong to the pool of realistical winner candidates (along with 7-ish other teams) and every team must sort of think positive. One can't tell how the World Cup will go, there are always surprises and it's often about very small things who'll succeed and who doesn't.

    Dunno if it has been a part of the problem the last few World Cups or not, but one thing that is positive about the Brazil team nowadays is that they can't (afford to) be arrogant, as their results lately don't allow them to think they're the best at the moment. You need to believe in yourself, but you need to be humble and hungry. None/almost none of the 2014 squad will have a World Cup medal in CV, let alone gold. The inexperience is a bad thing, but the flipside is no one surely has "stomach full".

    As for Pato: he is good if fit, but hardly a player who is better than what any major opponent can field as the central attacker. That said: obv a solid player and part of the 23.


  5. SweetLife

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    Brazil had a more complete team in 2010 and failed to win! At least then you had a keeper who was considered world class. Now, I am not sure any of the keepers Brazil has are even considered above average. Pato is not the number 1 option at AC Milan and, he is not reliable. Brazil's main strength is good attacking midfielders and 3 good defenders becaue, the team may still need another decent center-back to replace Luiz who will cost any respectable team at least 1 goal a match. With these issues the unthinkable may even happen if Brazil face the right opponent(Round of 16 exit) and it may not even be a glamorous team that does it.
  6. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

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    Well first of all, nope it's not arrogant to believe we can win. If we don't believe it, then who will? It would be arrogant if we said " we will definitely win it, all the other teams are mere coadjuvants before the might of the 5 star squad!"!!111!!".

    About the quality of our strikers and goalies... Well there are formations that don't use a number 9 at all, our current formation is one of those. You may lose a physical presence in the box, but you gain in mobility and creativity. Besides, in a frontline of Kaka /Neymar/ Lucas/ Oscar everyone knows how to score, dribble and pass. Still, if we REALLY need a number 9 in a more difficult game we can bring one as a reserve, there is Fred/Damião/ Luis Fabiano/ Pato if healthy, they may not be of the same quality right now to Van Persie/Ibra/ Falcão, but they can do the job. You underrate our goalies as well, Diego Alves/ Cavalieri/Jefferson are good enough.

    But most of all, you are comparing the quality of players on paper. In a normal day, Van Persie is better than Damião, no doubt. But the match day is not necessarily normal. Just look back at WC 2010, as you even said Julio César was one of the best around, yet his failure vs Netherland (plus other factors like Felipe Melo's red) resulted in our elimination. Even the best players can have a bad day, or an "inferior" player can surpass himself. If quality was the only thing that mattered then certainly Messi would've scored more goals at WCs, right?
  7. Daniel96

    Daniel96 Member

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    Why are you all talking about a goalkeeper... Diego Alves is preety good, hes no Casillas but he does the job.
    The main problem is our Striker, I cant believe Brazil do not have a good striker, I dont expect another Ronaldo because those players dont come around too often, but someone like Falcao/RVP/Ibra even Gomez, they are all better than the strikers Brazil have today.
    I think a fit Pato is our best option, but hes not reliable since hes injury-prone.

    Adriano was a beast of a pure striker in his prime, I wonder how Brazil would be if he stayed in form... hes not that old hes 30, he could of played in 2014 world cup but I have no idea what happened to him.
  8. NotreDameFlamengo

    NotreDameFlamengo Member+

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    Pato was healthy during the Copa America and was a huge disappointment. I attribute this not to Pato's abilities but to no service. I've said it before that Brasil's hopes of winning the world cup sit on finding a 10 that can provide service and creativity. I know its early and this combination of Oscar and Kaka' hasn't shown us prolonged success, but I believe this will provide what The Selecao has lacked during Mano's reign.

    I really hope Mano tries to stick with this new formation and provide some continuity for the homestretch leading up to The Copa.​
  9. SweetLife

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    The good news is many other teams have big issues also. Argentina's Goalkeeping and defense is not good enough to guarantee a place beyond the quarter final. In fact the only teams which are very strong on paper in every position are Germany, Spain and Italy. All have good goalkeepers, defense, midfield and strikers but, in 2 years some of them may sink!
  10. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

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    That, I can agree with.
  11. Daniel96

    Daniel96 Member

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    Well for me its either Pato or just play without a striker... A fit Pato is the best #9 Brazil have.
    Pato is still young and has time, maybe leaving milan and starting fresh will be best for him.
    Anyway since theres no striker how do you think Neymar will play as a false 9 or forward in a free-role like Messi? I think Neymar likes to stay on the left wing alot because he has space to do his dribbles and runs, But you never know he might change... Messi first started playing on the wing then he changed.
  12. SweetLife

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    Luiz Adriano is emerging as a real prospect for you and may be a better choice that injury prone Pato. Your coach may need to look at your talents in Ukraine who are were even part of a team which out played Chelsea over 2 legs.
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    I can agree with Pato as he still has time (1.5yrs) to recover and improve his form as #9.
    In overall game he is a better forward than Damaio, Fred ... (whoelse? Fabiano is a NO case as he is old and only gets worse in 2014)
  14. PapaDoc23

    PapaDoc23 Member

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    It is not arrogant to think we can win. I hope we can win but I do not trust Mano. Ever since he has taken over it has been difficult to watch the team sometimes. We lost to Mexico twice we lost to an Argentina team that has no defense to speak of,we lost to a French team that is talented but have no chemistry and we lost to Germany. So it worries me we lose to teams like these because to win the World Cup you will face these teams in a semi final or quarterfinal. The team needs chemistry that is just important as having a team full of talent. You can have all the talent in the world but if the team does not gel then you will end up like Portugal,France,Netherlands. These team have amazing individual talent but their chemistry is poor. And when that happens you will not win. That is why in 2013 mano will need to know what team he will use. The time for experimenting is over now he needs to know who is his starting XI and he needs to bring in a deep bench.

    We are favorites and we have alot of talent but we have no #9 striker which is surprising. Pato is injury prone,Damiao is not that great.Luis Fabiano is inconsistent some games he played well in others you never see him. In the Holland match he was no where to be seen. I mean football has changed. Spain has shown you do not needs a #9 to win games,just but in six attacking midfielders and see what happens. But it would not work for brazil. Offensively we have many choices in the midfield like Oscar,Coutihno(who is back on form),Lucas Moura,Kaka,Hernanes,Danilo,Alex Sandro etc. Defensively we are solid. I would like Lucio or Juan to come back and team up with Thiago to give that defense a strong back line. But Luiz is good. The Paulihino and Ramires combo is great so far. Marcelo is great and we need him for the World Cup. He attacks well,he is a tough defender and has passion for the team. Dani Alves is iffy. I mean he plays well for barca but since mano taken overhe has been a hit and miss. I say give him more time. We shall see what he does in the next couple of games and confed cup. What more can I say about Neymar? He is good,talented a great scorer but I wish he would got to Europe now. So we have a good team but there needs to be some changes,we need a #9,we need the team more time to gel. Mano as I said needs to figure out what his starting XI soon. He also needs a deep bench.Bring in Wellington Nem or Luis Gustavo or Hernanes and use them as a super sub. So we are favorites but if you ask me will we win it? Well I am not to confident in Mano.
  15. PapaDoc23

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    Yeah the same Luiz Adriano who did this .
  16. SweetLife

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    Suarez has done worse and Uruguay still calls him:D
  17. Rivelino87

    Rivelino87 Member

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    Don't feed the troll. This poster has been trolling here all year. This thread has no merit. It is not aimed at discussing football. It is just a chance for him to try to put what he thinks are deficiencies in the NT to get under the skin of the Brazilian posters, and to call those who disagree "arrogant", blind and the like.

    What a sad, pathetic life it must be when the lack of a significant NT manifests itself this way.
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  18. Dage

    Dage Member+

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    Your point sounds that he mostly opend this thread to troll but it can't be sweeped under the table that it's a huge gap between "Brazil will win 2014 certainly" and "Brazil axes its manager". It's imo also strange that foreigners as successors are favored by some fans.
  19. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Dunno if the thread was starter as a troll or whatever, but since opening, there's been non-troll discussion. Let people talk and take it easy imo. :cool:
    Dage repped this.
  20. NotreDameFlamengo

    NotreDameFlamengo Member+

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    Until proven otherwise, Brasil will always be a favorite to win it. As I've said before in this thread winning the WC requires a mix of talent and luck. It all depends on how you play that particuliar day, if the ball bounces your way or not, refs, if a burro has a complete mental breakdown and draws a red for inconsequential challenge, etc, etc, etc.

    Quote/Unquote Favorites: Germany, Brasil, Spain
    Legit Shot: Argentina, Italy, Portugal, Uruguay
    Outside Shot if they get their shit together: Holland
  21. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    IMO one has to give Argentina more credit, and perhaps less credit to Uruguay. Also, more credit to France should be given. Also, good choice of article before Brazil -> they indeed are "a favourite", not "the favourite" nowadays.
  22. SweetLife

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    France is not a favorite in 2014. They have no exceptional world class player. 2014 will be the closest world cup in a long time and I expect a team who has not won it before to win it.
  23. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Maybe not a favourite, but surely at least should be included to the group of "outside shot if they get their **** together". They're really one of those teams that they can be a tough team to beat for anyone, even if they wouldn't go all the way. Anyways tough to say they're, for example, clearly worse than Uruguay nowadays.

    As for expecting a new WC, I dunno. I'd say it's more likely than unlikely that the winner will be one of Spain, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Argentina, France, Uruguay and England - but obv that's just an opinion.
  24. SweetLife

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    Uruguay and England do not belong in that group and neither does France . Spain, Germany and maybe Brazil will be very difficult for anyone to beat. The others are easier to beat by a team who put up a spirited performance.
  25. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    They've all won it before, so why wouldn't they belong to the group?

    As for others than Spain, Brazil and Germany being easy to beat, lol.

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