Is it neccessary to build an aerobic base before doing anything intense?

Discussion in 'Player' started by RubberToe, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. RubberToe

    RubberToe New Member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    My endurance and strength have always been my weaknesses. Endurance is weak mostly because I hate long distance running. I rather exercise at high intensities for a short amount of time, but I have read from various sources that you must build an aerobic base through running before you can move on to more intense forms of running. Is there any truth to this? Right now, I could barely finish 2 miles straight without feeling gassed out.

    I would also like to add that for the last 4 years I have trained by myself, so must of my workouts consist of weights (compound movements at 5 rep max) and 40-100 meter linear sprints. My off the ball movement and straight running seems to have improved tremendously. I could break almost any offside trap, but I have a hard time being mobile with the ball like I use to. I use to be able to change directions with ease, and felt I could maneuver with the ball much easier. Now I am somewhat stiff despite not gaining much muscle mass (my chest and upperbody got a bit bigger,and my legs stayed the same, I am not sure if this is what is contributing to the problem.)

    Anyways sorry for rambling on but I really I want to be the best version of myself, and it seems like every year, the more I train by myself, the farther away I am getting from my preferred playing style.


  2. ExclusiveSoccer

    ExclusiveSoccer New Member

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    Consider varying your exercises. To much of the same repetitive training isn't good. From what you are writing I can see that you are trying to make it to the pros. As much as short sprints are important you must not neglect long distance running.

    I'm not saying to start running marathons but you must improve your stamina. It is you against that opponent that will out run you. Harsh but true fact. At the end of the day nobody cares I you like to run long distances. They will only see that you failed to deliver your maximum.

    Make a plan and start running father each day. But remember baby steps. You could also join a small group of runners that you can find near you. They will encourage you along the way.

    Don't get me wrong. But you should't make excuses.

    So to answer you question. Yes it is necessary in my opinion to build a strong aerobic base among other things.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  3. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    Nov 25, 2005
    Not enough information to give specific advice. What is your time in the 2 miles? Are the sprints endurance or speed training? (Depends on whether you are rested or not.) Are you also stretching? Four years is a long time. You should be varying your workouts and they should be more soccer specific. If you only run 40 yard sprints, then you will get good at running 40 yard sprints, but "detrain" at other things.

    While conventional wisdom is to work aerobic endurance before anaerobic endurance and strength before power, if you are match fit you should be doing interval training of some sort. And if you have been strength training for 4 years, you could benefit from some power training.

    Generally speaking you need a training plan with cycles so your training is more effective. Your training needs to be more soccer specific and you should be doing some SAQ--speed, agility and quickness--training. The best way to end a SAQ session imo is playing 1v1.

    You can try designing your own training program from information on the net like here: http://www.edb.utexas.edu/ssn/CCA Papers/Soccer.htm

    Or you can purchase a program in a book or e-book. I bought Mat Herold's XFactor materials for a modest fee a couple of years ago because it is a soccer specific program. It looked pretty good to me.
    There are a lot of general conditioning programs out there, but not soccer specific. Mat's materials are a very complete package.
    Elbullio repped this.
  4. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

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    Dec 24, 2010
    Can only agree with rca. Need more information. What is your goal, main attributes, etc.

    However, stretching will problably do you good. Or a pilates class. I think you - by too much gym training - have shifted your center of gravity upwards, causing immobility and lesser agility in football.

    A few questions tho:

    How much football vs. gym training do you do?

    History of injuries

    Dieting? Do you eat a lot of gluten or beef that can inflame your joints?


  5. RubberToe

    RubberToe New Member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. I am 24 years old and play in a semi-competitive league. I don't think there is any chance of me becoming pro anymore, so that is out of the question. My main goals are to get overall fitter, stronger, and faster. Some would consider me very skilled, so I am able to survive with minimal fitness, but note, I said survive, not thrive. I am 5'7 and about 134lbs, with a goal weight of 145lbs. I squat 220 for 1 rep, and deadlift 290 for 1 rep. My current routine consists of weights, in the form of compound movements, twice a week. I also run 2 miles twice a week at an 8 mile pace.

    I have Matt Herald's X-factor book, and it is a great book for getting faster and stronger, but he has very little on conditioning. My main problems seem to be stiffness, and sore calves and shins right when I do my first sprint in a competitive match. My legs ALWAYS give out before my lungs. I seem to have a lot of mobility and movement pattern issues. My right hip especially is really tight and inflexible and causes my right foot to pronate outwards. This is why I think my legs hurt when I run. I have read up on the issue and have tried almost everything but the problem persists.
  6. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    Nov 25, 2005
    1) Pain when you run is a red flag. 2) Stiff and sore muscles at the start of the match is a red flag.

    Your training (as you describe it) is wrong for your sport, but I fear you may have more problems than that. I urge you to get evaluated by a professional.

    Your pre-season 2-mile time should be around 12 minutes. Jogging a steady 8-minute per mile pace will not get you there.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  7. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

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    You need to get some help from a physiotherapist before messing your body up.

    Good thing is, i think it is rather easy to correct. And when thats in order, you need to do a conditioning routine. Doesnt your team train properly?
  8. RubberToe

    RubberToe New Member

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    I actually have an appointment to get my hip checked out. I play in an adult team that does not practice at all, so I am left alone when it comes to training. If and when I get cleared how should I approach optimizing my fitness? Like I said before, I lift weights in the 5 reP range and do a lot of speed type training, but it leaves me sore to do any other conditioning.

    Ignoring any physiological problems what would you guys do, if you were to start a soccer conditioning/ strenght routine from the start?
  9. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    You are not a novice where generalized programs help at the start. You have been playing and training for years, so any training program should be based on your individual circumstances. What I would do would not be appropriate for you. My own circumstances are unique.

    You need to be evaluated. I don't do that.
  10. dejansavicevic10

    dejansavicevic10 Member

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    I think the other forumers are spot on with seeking the help of a professional to determine why you have right hip pain. From your posts, it sounds like you have the aerobic/anaerobic part of conditioning addressed; you run sprints and run 2 miles at a 8 minute per mile pace. The gap you appear to have in your energy system development is lack of lactate threshold, as in high intensity work between 12 seconds and roughly 3 minutes. It also appears that you have asymmetries in your flexibility and strength, hence the stiffness and pain. How often do you stretch? Do you do pre-hab exercises your hip/shoulders/core? I am sure a medical professional can assess and diagnose what is going on.
    rca2 repped this.
  11. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

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    Jul 31, 2012
    How often do you rest? I mean really rest.
    If you are lifting weights / training /playing 7 days a week then you are doing it wrong.
    Your body needs some recovery time.
  12. Squex

    Squex Member

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    How can I test my aerobic system to see if Iam fitt and to be able to start anaerobic trainning?
  13. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    There are a large number of tests, but the simplest is to run 2 miles for time. Coaches commonly want their players to show up for the first practice able to run it in 12 minutes or less. All you need is a known distance and a watch. Ten minutes would be a great time, to put it in perspective.

    Don't be too concerned about getting less than 12 minutes. Individuals vary. Some body types favor distance running and some favor sprinting and agility. You can improve your fitness, but you can't change your body type.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  14. lil_one

    lil_one Member

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    Rest is definitely important, and active recovery can be even more important. Active recovery is light exercise (walking or a light jog), stretching, using a foam roller, stretching and slow agility movements in a pool, etc. The general rule is at least one day a week of rest/active recovery.
  15. lil_one

    lil_one Member

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    This test, or what is commonly known as the Cooper test, is the easiest. You can just run by time too...in other words, how far can you go in 12 minutes? The standard varies by age and gender though. The expectation for our ladies team in college coming into preseason was 7.5 laps on a 400 m track in under 12 minutes, 8 laps for the guys. If you're significantly younger or older than 18-20, there's a chart for the Cooper test that shows the standard for your age group.
    There's also the yo-yo recovery test, or the "beep" test. For that, you'd have to purchase the CD or mp3, which is available online, unless you know a coach or friend who has it.
  16. Squex

    Squex Member

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    Thank you for the answers.
    Is it possible to train aerobic endurance while you are making anaerobic conditioning exercises?
    I was reading about fartlek and I thought if someone doing a roadwork of 5 miles changed the pace of his sprints, by running some time at 70, 80 or 90% of his full speed and then resting at 60ยจ% would he improve anaerobic and aerobic conditioning after completingin 45 minutes something around 5 miles?
  17. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    Anaerobic exercise also helps aerobic endurance. I don't understand this very well, but the three energy systems don't turn off like turning off a light bulb. Each energy system exists. The way I think of it is that the aerobic system backs up the anaerobic system.
  18. RubberToe

    RubberToe New Member

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    I went to an orthopedic on Friday, and got an MRI on my knee which was injured a year ago. Apparently, I have a torn ACL and meniscus, which will require surgery. I have been playing for a year now with a torn acl and a knee brace, and I had my highest scoring season. Kind of bummed and a bit nervous to get the surgery because I have heard conflicting information about it.

    The ortho also checked my hips and she said they don't externally rotate almost at all. Crap this really puts a big halt on my conditioning and soccer plans.

    Have any of you experienced acl reconstruction surgery?
  19. lil_one

    lil_one Member

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    I'm glad you got it checked out although sorry you got bad news. I've never torn any ligaments, but many of my teammates have, and successfully came back to the game. So find a good PT, and I wish you a complication-free surgery and a speedy recovery!
  20. hegs

    hegs New Member

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    Best way is the beep test.
  21. Rover_Dave

    Rover_Dave Member

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    Blackburn Rovers FC
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    My season is due to end on Saturday, due to the weather most games have been called off but we have not had a single cancellation and as a result our last game is on Saturday.

    Anyway, with this in mind i have started thinking towards off season training, i have seen Fartlek training mentioned, if i was to look into doing some of this, how would people work it, so that it is geared towards football?
  22. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    Normally you rest initially after a season finishes. How long before your next season starts?
  23. Rover_Dave

    Rover_Dave Member

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    It wont start again until August. I wasn't planning on going hell for leather at present, i don't want to get massively out of shape though.
  24. rca2

    rca2 Member

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    That is a much longer break than I expected.
    Here is a link to an explanation of a yearly training cycle.
    http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/soccer-training-program.html

    The object of the yearly plan is to improve your abilities and have performance peak during the next season. You don't have to actually have a formal plan, but you could make one yourself or buy a generalized plan. During the year you work on the same 4 basic areas--technical, tactical, physical and mental. What varies is the percentage of time you spend on each area. During the season you might spend 90% of your training time with a ball. During the off-season you might spend 10% of your training time with the ball.

    Rest doesn't mean inactive. Rest periods for athletes should be active. Typically you take care of any injuries first and then do fun alternative activies. Some call it cross training. It is a good time to start a strength training program or a SAQ program.

    Now for what you were really asking about. Fartleks are a form of interval training. The idea is to alternate intensity levels so that the anaerobic energy system gets involved. The key is what your heart rate reaches during the intervals. You want to bounce it between the aerobic and anaerobic zones. (See this chart http://vibrationtrainingexpert.com/2012/10/16/target-heart-rate/ )

    What I would do is not going to be correct because of individual differences. Particularly athletes have different fitness levels and different maximum heart rates.

    I mostly used 3 interval levels using telephone poles to mark distances. Match fit it would be jog, stride, sprint. Out of shape it might degenerate to mostly walk, jog, sprint. When I was your age I was match fit and covering varied distances of 2-6 miles, 3-5 times per week. 30 years later I am down to walking and jogging 2 miles.

    In the simplest form you can alternate 30 seconds of jogging and sprinting.

    A complicated form could include more levels and mix in different movements than just simply running straight forward. (For example, running backwards, sideways, turning, skipping, crawling, high intensity calisthenics--your imagination is the limit.)

    You can get also get anaerobic benefit from strength training done as HIIT (high intentity interval training). See this link for power hiit training example http://www.muscleandperformancemag.com/training/2012/7/power-hiit

    Sorry to be so long winded. Just wanted you to see that you can do a lot of different activities and get an anaerobic benefit.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  25. Rover_Dave

    Rover_Dave Member

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    No need to apologise Rca2, thankyou for such a fantastically detailed post. Very much appreciated. I will have a look at the links you have provided.
    I have been thinking of putting some kind of plan together as i have such a long break. The break btw, is not only due to the weather but also a few teams have dropped out all together, which has meant less games. There is currently 5 leagues and they are restructuring these into 4 for next season in order to avoid a repeat of this season.

    Thanks again Rca2.

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