Is This Irresponsible behavior??

Discussion in 'Referee' started by IllinoisRef, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    Today working a game at an indoor facility the following conversation was overheard and I'd like your guys opinion if this would constitute enough reason to show a red card to a coach (as required by the facility).
    With the game clock about to expire the referee called a foul inside the center circle after advantage didn't materialized. The player kicked all the way inside the goal since the keeper wasn't expecting the kick form that far. The goal tied the game and clock expired right thereafter.
    The coach approached the referee complaining that it wasn't a foul and started complaining about perceived non-calls against his team during the game. The referee kept waling past the coach who followed still complaining about the call that led to the goal, after seen that the referee wasn't taking the bait and didn't engage the coach said kind of loud for people around to hear (including his teenager players still around). "I'll call (the assignor name) and I'll make sure you never ref here again". The referee showed him the red card and said he had been sent off, the referee said that he took offense with what was said as he perceived as a threat and as offensive.
    The coach continue now in a lower voice half apologized saying that he only meant that he would ask the assignor not to assign the referee to his games only to which the referee replied, "Go ahead".
    After realizing what stupid thing he had said the coach now started to back track and apologized pretty much saying that he would stop complaining if the referee didn't report the card. What a deal huh?

    So would you report the card or forget about it? DO you think it was enough reason to show the red?
    Fire away.


  2. smitha96

    smitha96 Member

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    Jul 11, 2010
    Integrity and courage = report the red card
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  3. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

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    Mar 30, 2011
    I would report the card. Otherwise the coach has gotten away with his initial irresponsible behavior. I would feel compelled to report his remorse, but I would include whether or not it appeared sincere to me.
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  4. Quad237

    Quad237 Member

    Joined:
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    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Report it, and judging by the fact that the coach is earnestly trying to get you to not report it tells me that he knows your justified and does not want the punishment he knows is coming his way. Also you need to look at it as preemptively protecting another referee (possibly a younger or more inexperienced person) from getting the same sort of abuse.


  5. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    --other--
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    Yep, that merits reporting. Just because the coach fails at intimidation doesn't mean he should fail at drawing attention to himself.
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  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    If it's given, report it. Period. The only caveat would be if immediate facts caused the referee to rescind the card immediately after it was given. But please don't be the ref that didn't report a card and encouraged the yahoos to ask, "so, are you going to report that card?" The answer to that question is ALWAYS yes.
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  7. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Report. And also make sure you get one of his next games.
  8. Yale

    Yale Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    No, I wouldn't report it. I'd totally compromise my integrity and professionalism in order to protect this jackass who just tried to threaten and intimidate me. After all, I'm sure the facility is just itching to ban referees left and right based on the say-so of some hotheaded coach.
  9. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If you are asking, I think you know the answer. Report the coach. It happens (I reported a coach this past weekend for something very similar....). Keep in mind, if the referee does not report the issue, next week another referee may be subjected to the same abuse. The coach was out of line with his comments. Submit to the league and let them sort it out.
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  10. NC Soccer United

    NC Soccer United BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    You. Always. Report. A. Red. Card. Always.
  11. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Location:
    Littleton, MA
    Unaffiliated indoor games have their own rules and considerations, and they usually don't have sportsmanship review boards or a formal appeals process. It may be that a single individual (owner, manager, or assignor) is in full control of future assignments, with little or no oversight.

    So, does the boss want you to report the card? Does he expect a written report? Will he back you up? Will he view you as the problem and try to placate the coach? Do you want to keep working there? Do you want future assignments involving the same coach? Do you want assignments involving other "problem" coaches?

    In this situation, nobody else is likely looking out for your interests, so I would suggest you consider your own objectives and preferences in deciding how to report the coach behavior issue.

    - QC
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  12. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

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    Brilliant.
  13. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

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    Location:
    Southern NH
    Affiliated or not (he doesn't say) REPORT THE CARD.
    For whatever reason, you pulled the card. At that point, the deal is sealed (short of you learning new facts that show you you are wrong to have pulled it). remorse afterwards is not a change of facts.
    Report the card, report the ENTIRE conversation, including leading up to the card, the card and EVERYTHING after the card. Just the facts.
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  14. campbed

    campbed Member

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    New Hampshire, USA
    "Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" – John Wayne

    Report it, show some sand, and pass the coaches test.
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  15. SA14mars

    SA14mars Member

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    FC Dallas
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    Report with full details of what was said by all. Let the powers at be decide if he was remorseful. The facts and only the facts.
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  16. rkucenski

    rkucenski Member

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    Flower Mound TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Ok, I think the majority says report the card that was given.

    What I am curious about...what does the consensus say about what the coach said being enough to be dismissed? Is that considered offensive or threatening?

    Personally, I have heard the "you'll never work here again" line by coaches before. Most of the time it is after the match and usually about a game critical decision towards the end. I don't think I've ever dismissed someone for just that verbiage. Just attribute it to the emotional ending of the match and continue leaving the field. Now in these examples the coach was not on me all match either. I could see "you'll never work here again" being the last straw, but not the sole reason to dismiss someone.

    Thoughts?
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  17. IllinoisRef

    IllinoisRef Member

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    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
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    That was exactly my question. Was that enough? Did I overreact?
  18. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member

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    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's absolutely enough to dismiss for. It's a direct threat against you.
  19. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    IMHO, YHTBT.

    I think tone, volume, context, and general league expectations/standards are going to matter a lot. As you note in your original title, the standard is not offensive or threatening -- it is irresponsible behavior.

    Would I personally have tosseed for this? As I picture it in my mind from the description, probably not -- I probably would have kept walking and reported the behavior. But I also don't see anything that make me think it was wrong for a different referee to have a different opionion and pull the trigger. And there is only one opinion that matters.
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  20. uniqueconstraint

    uniqueconstraint Member

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    If I read the OP correctly, the "you'll never work here again" was the last straw, coach was arguing but the ref wasn't taking the bait.

    I haven't had it said to me (yet), but I have to think if I do, that coach is dismissed for irresponsible behavior. I get an emotional argument but to me that remark crosses a line, and becomes a threat or intimidation. Just because he's not threatening violence doesn't make it a reason to shrug it off.

    Remind me again why we do this?;)
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  21. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    This reminds me of an incident in the old NASL. One of the "guest" referees who was from Ireland, had issued a yellow to Chinaglia, the star forward of the Cosmos. Giorgio then told him he would never work a Cosmos game again. Whereupon the referee, in his Irish brogue responded " Oh, is that a fact, well then, I'll just make it a certainty" and promptly pulled the red!

    PH
  22. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

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    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Country:
    Croatia
    Unless I'm misunderstanding the first sentence of your original post (..."as required by the facility") it doesn't seem like you had wiggle room to show a yellow card even if you wanted to?

    If you didn't issue any card, there would have been a good chance he would have made a phone call the next day. He made the comment because for some reason he thought you'd be intimidated by his remark and never expected you to continue walking away. Chances are he's done this before and gotten away with it.

    My experience with indoor leagues/facilities and assignors is that it's an extremely small pool of referees that they can trust who can deal with coaches and agressive adult players which is a compliment to you. You explain (as you've probably already done by this point) to the assignor exactly what you indicated above, and it's their decision to make about length of suspension. He should have your back....unless this occurrs in your games every other week. ;)
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  23. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

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    New York Red Bulls
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    Croatia
    Chinaglia had a LOT of clout in those days and he wasn't kidding. Kudos to the Irish referee.
  24. tomek75

    tomek75 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I work quite a bit of Indoor, and in my indoor league the players and coaches have more clout than the ref. I have given out quite a few Red card indoor for irresponsible behavior. Specifically threatening or vulgar comments. With my old assignor that was not a problem, because he always backed me up even when the facility management did not want to issue suspensions. However this all changed about 4 months ago when my assignor no longer could perform his assigning duties. All of the sudden, I found myself only doing youth games. Soon after we all had a meeting about how we are a business and we have to cater to the customer. Even though the rule book clearly states: "Excessive and abusive language or violent conduct are not tolerated anywhere on the premises. These actions may result in a yellow or red card depending on the severity and referees discretion."

    So in my opinion doing indoor non sanctioned games the rule book does not apply. Learn what other referees do and what is expected of you in that league and adjust or find some other avenue for the off season.
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  25. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern NH
    Edited the quote to get to what I consider the meat of it.
    - referee tried to walk away
    - coach "loud for people around to hear" is the key for me.

    IF he had said it just to me, ok, I'd laugh and tell him to go for it.
    He did it, not to make a point, but to appear all tough and rugged and show up the referee. Sorry, line in the sand is drawn and crossed, time to pull dismiss.
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