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Is Zico, not Maradona, the second best player?ever?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Izzy9, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    Maradona is ... MARADONA the most skillful player I've ever seen live until now
    Zico was also great and he could even rival (or beat) Cruyff in skills but am afraid he was edged out a bit by Maradona

    The only player who could overcome Maradona is Pele (with his overall career)
     


  2. Once

    Once Member+

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    Neither of them is the second best player ever ;)
     
  3. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

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    who is?
     
  4. Once

    Once Member+

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    I dont quite know, mate. Certainly not Diego in my view, because I place him at the very top. The usual suspects are top candidates for the subsequent spots. That is Pelé, Di Stéfano, Cruyff, etc. etc.
     


  5. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

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  6. Daniel96

    Daniel96 Member

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    Zico is better in free kicks, passing and is just as good in dribbling, maybe maradona is a little tiny bit better on dribbling but im not sure.

    Overall Zico is a better all around and a team player, so id say maybe zico is a little bit better.

    its hard to say who is better, its just a anyones opinion. they are both as just as each other

    but pele is better then both :)
     
  7. Alessandro10

    Alessandro10 Member

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    People underestimate Diego in passing. I don't know what Zico had over him in vision and passing. And Diego was definitely better in dribbling. He is the second best ever dribbler behind Garrincha . And in pure technique and skills he is the best ever.
     
  8. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

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    Maradona is the best dribbler of all times, ahead of Garrincha, but also his superlative skills in passing make him seem not as great a dribbler.
     
  9. SirWellingtonSilva

    SirWellingtonSilva Member

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    Answer to this thread is yes, he is much better than maradona but nowhere near as good as pele

    [​IMG]
    Top 5 ever:

    1.Pele
    2.Zico
    3.Garrincha
    4.Ronaldo
    5.Neymar
     
  10. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    WOw Neymar > Rivelino, Tostao, Jairzinho, Romario, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho?
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    I don't think there is much difference between the football players, ultimately romantic things like this give the edge for me.
     
  12. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Although never a serious debate on whom was better, even when both were playing, the difference lies mostly in what was said before and after by some of their adversaries, by the players and managers.

    But for the most part, these two players rarely competed against the same opposition. But the reports that I own, suggest that some of the markers that had to challenge these two, found it more difficult to stop the Argentinian. Some of their key conclusions of what separated them was the ability to spin off their marker which made Maradona extremely dangerous - because once he got away, you couldn’t catch him - and the intelligence of reading the game.

    There’s also the issue with fouls that each had to endure, in which the Argentinian was dealt with the worst and harshest treatment throughout his career. Being the most fouled player in three straight World Cups and hunted down in Spanish and Italian football, is indicative to this statement. But despite this, it didn’t demoralize him, and he would keep going. So the aspect of being the most valiant is also a virtue that I cannot overlook.
     
  13. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Who were these experts and what are the sources? I haven't come across them, and I don't remember them.

    What I do remember, and what I do own in my possession is sources of what you said, but it was in reference to Maradona, not Zico.
     
  14. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Perhaps you are right, since he was regarded as his successor, which is documented in my sources of that time.
     
  15. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    But the Flamengo guy never competed against neither of the two:D;)

    I think it’s telling when one can learn from the experiences of the defenders that had to mark them. Anyone can have an opinion now, but what is more important is to know what the defenders had to deal with. What was it like to prepare to mark that man? What did it feel like on the battle field?

    That’s more telling for me than any opinion of anyone outside of the field.
     
    jerrito repped this.
  16. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    That is quite odd, since I never recalled that. My sources always point to the opposite.

    In any event, Maradona was never in any position to expertly speak about Pele, since he wasn't someone like Platko, who was involved in the development of Brazil's young talent in the late '50s and early '60s.
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    I can see that Zico was less pacey, less explosive and not that agile but was his intelligence really seen as inferior? I always had the impression that Zico tended to vary his game very well.
     
  18. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    It was, but the examples are small, since both were rarely compared by managers, ex-players, and rarely faced the same opposition. For the most part, they weren’t compared at all.

    But there were some cases. I also own some articles from when Gentile mentioned them both and said that Maradona was more dangerous. One of his phrases was: “if you blink, you lost”

    Once in 1982 prior to the WC the German magazine of Kicker sent ex-player Jurgen Grabowski to watch Maradona and Zico in South America when both played friendlies against West Germany, and was asked to compare them both. Both players had been marked by Matthaeus, and his report concluded that Maradona’s attitude was greater. He said: “Once Maradona comprehended that he couldn’t do it on his own and that there wasn’t anything that he could do, he let the game flow through his teammates so that they wouldn’t depend solely on him. He was more intelligent than Zico. Even then, he produced great passes with long range. I think we are in presence of a fantastic player, with a great future.”

    Menotti compared them in March of 1982 and came to a similar conclusion as the German: “Maradona has more qualities than Zico. Against West Germany, Zico was tightly marked and he lacked recourses to escape his marker. Maradona on the other hand, is quicker, has more ideas. Inclusively, if he can’t with his marker, he retreats far back into his own half dragging his marker with him which opens space for his teammates. In a group, it’s more difficult to hold Maradona down than Zico. In Rio, Matthaeus shut Zico down without having to force himself too much.”

    Helenio Herrera’s view in June of 1982 was in regards to the transfer of Maradona to play in Spain, and this is what he said: It’s a good transfer. Maradona is a player with initiative, and possesses a virtue above the rest: he knows how to escape from the man-marking of the European defender. That’s very important. For example, if Zico would have been the choice, I would have said no, because he doesn’t know how to do it.”

    He repeated this in July of 1983: “I don’t believe in Zico. Maradona is better at releasing himself from the shackles of defenders, he has more change of pace, rhythm, and is more intelligent.”
     
    Once repped this.
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    You've got the original copy of that kicker magazine? That is cool. How did you know that that comparison existed?
     
  20. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    El Grafico cited this in their 20 April 1982 magazine.

    Here’s the copy in Spanish:
    [​IMG]


    For some reason the transfer from scan to forum does not come out sharp. Perhaps you know of another way? I was using the Imgur website.
     
  21. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Although rarely compared during their time, some of these comparisons existed because from 1980-1984, both of them were considered the top two or three in the world. Then there was the issue of South American players transferring to Europe, which had both of them hot on the market. The other player that was seriously considered the best was Rummenigge.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    The scan itself is sharp? If not, alter the settings of the scanning device so it will take a bit longer but with a more accurate result. Saving the picture in .png instead of .jpg/.jpeg also helps.

    Very interesting material.

    Do you know by the way in which stadium the warm-up scenes were shot? They are very famous but sometimes they say/credit it with Stuttgart as location and others think it was in Munich (I think it was in Munich, based on the advertisements).
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Rummenigge also past 1982? He won the Ballon d'Or in 1980 and 1981 and was struggling with injuries from 1982 onwards.
     
  24. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Yes, he would fall in the category of the first half of those years. That's what I meant, my mistake. Platini was in the mix by then.
     
  25. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member

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    Ok, I'll try that.

    I believe it was Munich.
     

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