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Israel/Palestine in the News, Part IV

Discussion in 'International News' started by JBigjake, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

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  2. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    I wouldn't need to shoot you in the face, you would get tasered or a similar response of scale of force 1 up from what you bring to me.

    But your analagy doesn't apply here, hamas aren't throwing stones, they are firing rockets and missiles. Shitty iranian ones, but rockets and missiles nonetheless. And they are firing them at civlian targets, as was stated earlier, you have massed Israeli forces right on the border, why aren't they firing at them?

    I love how people are glossing over the celebrations by hamas over the bus bombing. And nothing is said about the murder of 6 people in full public view? Or the dragging of a body down the street behind a motorcycle?
     
  3. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Weak argument and pathetic attempt to liken hamas use of human shields to hamas placing a bomb on a civlian bus that didn't even detonate at the ministry but nearby.

    Had they bombed the ministry building, I would accept it as a viable military target. But that isn't what happened no matter how you try to spin it to fit your silly arguments.
     
  4. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Trust a European to support an anti-Jewish group.
     


  5. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    The fallicy of your statement is the if part. hamas does exist, and they have clearly stated their intentions of their existence. What facts on the ground are being changed in the West Bank while hamas is fighting from gaza?
     
  6. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/21/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    What a nice guy, I am sure this was mis-translated and he really meant to strike at just military targets right? o_O
     
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  7. jmartin1966

    jmartin1966 Member

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    While there is no comprehensive settlement, Israel continues to settle the West Bank.
     
  8. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Yes they do and they are wrong to do so. You will not get an argument from me on that point. Not sure if you have seen my posts in the past on this topic, but I feel Israel should remove themselves from the West Bank and allow the PA to have full authority there, no checkpoints, nothing. And as for the settlements that are there, well they become part of Palestine and the people can either stay or go back to Israel. I would expect that anyone who stays would be given the same rights as any other citizen of Palestine at that point.
     
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  9. jmartin1966

    jmartin1966 Member

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    Sounds reasonable. I suppose Israel's objection is that, if this were to come to pass, the militant Palestinians would be able to obtain better missiles and would be closer to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (under the '67 boundaries they would be in "East" Jerusalem). I think the answer to that is, if the Palestinians could not control attacks from its borders, Israel do that for them. But that might be harder then "mowing the lawn" in Gaza every five years

    The only point of my original post is that Hamas is playing into the hands of Israel (or at least the Israeli "hardliners").
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

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    I don't support them. I recognise they're frustrated by the lack of a meaningful response from the other side and that's strengthened the hands of the religious morons among them.

    Unfortunately it's YOUR ill-informed and historically illiterate support that might lead to an unfortunate, possibly catastrophic, end for the Israeli state. If they tried my, (well, the majority position of the UN, more accurately), approach, they could, even yet, survive in the log run.
     
  11. Umar

    Umar Member+

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    [​IMG]
    Posted on a Facebook page purporting to be the official Arabic page for Dr Mohamed Morsi. Not sure if I believe it or not, doesn't seem original. It's doing the rounds on Facebook though.
     
  12. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

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    If they tried UN's approach, Israel would cease to exist. Thanks, but not thanks
     
  13. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    That is a risk they run. As we saw with gaza it led to rocket attacks against Israel. Where I see it differing is that I would make the west bank and gaza part of Palestine and they should get immediate recognition as a nation and made a member of the UN. I would think that would change the rules so far as attacks from either side.

    At some point the charters of likud and hamas need to be thrown out by each group. They are unrealistic and are an excuse for continued fighting from each side. How can any peace be conceived when charters exist denying the rights of the other side?
     
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  14. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Actually if you read my thoughts of a solution it would not lead to an end for either state, rather a beginning for a new Palestine.
     
  15. Iranianfootie

    Iranianfootie Member

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    Hamas rockets destroyed Israeli left. And now Israeli hardliners destroying Palestinian moderates. :-(
     
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  16. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

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    Eastern European immigrants killed the Israeli left.
     
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  17. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator Staff Member

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    LOL.......of course.....didn't realize you have an extensive background in ME history, as well as superb knowledge of Israeli politics.

    And of course two intifadas, Lebanon, and constant rocket barrage had nothing to do with that. It's those damn pesky Russian and Ukrainian Jews.
     
  18. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    How did you come to this conclusion?
     
  19. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

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    Demographically speaking, yes. It's those damn pesky Russian and Ukrainian Jews.
     
  20. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

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    Considering the Eastern European Commies started and built Israel - you're right.

    "sigh"
     
  21. Iranianfootie

    Iranianfootie Member

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    Avigdor Lieberman killed the Israeli left? I think that's a stretch. I agree that Eastern European immigrants are generally more conservative and thus their immigration has made Israel more conservative. But I think it's generally security related issues that has made Israel more consevative.
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Naughtius Maximus Member+

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    Really!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_242

    The preamble[3] emphasizes the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security."

    Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
    (i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
    (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

    ....

    On 1 May 1968, Israeli ambassador to the UN expressed Israel's position to the Security Council: "My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."

    In a statement to the General Assembly on 15 October 1968, the PLO rejected Resolution 242, saying "the implementation of said resolution will lead to the loss of every hope for the establishment of peace and security in Palestine and the Middle East region." In September 1993, the PLO agreed that Resolutions 242 and 338 should be the basis for negotiations with Israel when it signed the Declaration of Principles.

    So it was the Israelis that accepted 242 and the PLO that rejected it, albeit initially before later accepting it. Of course, and as you'd expect, there's some very 'lawyerly' language there but NOWHERE does it say Israel won't exist.

    You're not exactly big on this whole reality business, are yer mate :)
     
  23. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

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    Like acceptance of refugees, going back to 67 lines - that would cause Israel to cease as a Jewish nation. That's reality, bloke...
     
  24. teammellieIRANfan

    teammellieIRANfan Member+

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    In other words, you are in favour of apartheid policies, and denying Palestinian rights under UN resolution, to preserve this pathological status of Israel as a Jewish nation. Lol How myopic...
     
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  25. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

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    In your words. The apartheid states are Syria, Lebanon, Jordan that keep Palestinians in refugee camps.
    Palestinians had these rights, but they refused to accept them time and time again. They can thank their Arab brethren for that
     
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