It's time to stop playing Freddy out of position

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by soccersonoma10, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. Hoopscoach

    Hoopscoach Member

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    I think that everyone needs to keep Adu's age in mind. He is still only 22 years old. It was only a few years ago that Deuce was driving me crazy with his reckless 1 v 1 attacking and resulting turnovers every game. Now he is unquestionably our best offensive scorer in his late 20's. To say Adu's will never be anything but a super sub is taking things a bit to far. In 5 years it is very realistic to see a 27 year old Adu's in the role that Dempsey currently playing and maybe even doing as well.

    The problem with Freddy Adu is that there is very little grey area when people talk about him. He is either the answer or a failure. The truth is we still don't know , but he has definitely progressed.


  2. jimmy2823

    jimmy2823 Member

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    These discussions about adu are getting boring. The guy is just not good enough for the senior team; he’s too short and week to play in the center and to slow to play in the wing. He had a good tournament with the u 23 playing against kids but the senior team is a different level.
  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    You're talking about 2 positions that would be filled by Donovan, Dempsey, and/or Johnson, all of which are stronger players than Freddy.
  4. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    idk, seems like shea has been on the left for the usa more than anyone


  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Because Klinsmann has never been able to have both Dempsey and Donovan start in a single game yet (for a myriad of reasons). Start both of them, and its harder to find a place for Shea.

    Shea was top 3 in MLS MVP voting last year as a 21 year old. Freddy didn't actually play that much (or well) in MLS last season in Philly. That's why Shea's been getting more opportunities with the USMNT recently than Freddy.

    If Freddy starts excelling on a more frequent basis in MLS, he'll earn more USMNT callups.

    Freddy's problem his entire career has been a lack of consistency. He'll play a great game for a US youth team or the USMNT, get everybody on these boards all excited...........then disappear for 4 months. Then have a great appearance in club football followed by months of nothingness. If he wants to play more for the USMNT, he needs to be playing at a high level more consistently for the Union.
  6. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

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    If he wants to play at a high level more consistently for the Union, then he needs a full year with NO youth team or USMNT call-ups. Otherwise the Union should trade him away and get somebody who will, you know, actually be available for practices and games.
  7. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    If the full team is available then realistically the attacking 3 in Klinsmann's 4231 are Chandler, Donovan, Dempsey. If Chandler takes over Cherundolo's spot then a berth in the attack would be opened. There'd still be quite a bit competition for that spot however.

    I do agree spending as much with the Union and helping to drive a winning performance is more important for his Nats future than getting more caps in May.
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Well...........Freddy has played his last youth game. So we don't need to worry about that.

    It'll be the USMNT or nothing from here on out.
  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

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    1. Often the full team is not available so we've seen JK starting Shea, Buddle, Rogers, Williams as attacking players (or if you wish non-attacking players in attacking roles) at various times. Freddy is a good alternative to have in those situations.

    2. Having a couple guys who can change the game on the bench is also a good thing. Freddy is certainly a candidate for that kind of role.

    3. As you noted someday Cherundolo will yield his place in the lineup. And sadly, someday that will happen with Donovan and Dempsey as well. Freddy, Agudelo, Boyd, Shea, Sapong are the guys who will be fighting to be their replacement. Personally, I'd move Shea to left back and Johnson back to an attacking role, but that is a different conversation and already has been brought up in other threads.
  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    Or Dempsey, Donovan, and Johnson. The Johnson v Chandler argument is obviously one that involves implications over fullback as much as the attack, and I don't know if we all know that we can be sure which is which.

    I'm speaking near-term, not long-term. Longer-term, Chandler will be taking Cherundolo's spot.
  11. Aduesque

    Aduesque Member

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    How did you become a mod? This is the most garbage stuff I've read. Are you serious? Argentina, Brazil, Juventus, Portugal, Mexico, Spain, Greece, need I say more. If anything Adu proved he can do this to anyone. You and Skevrules dude need a reality check.
  12. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Secret training regime on knowing how to take dissenting opinions with neg repping.
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  13. Aduesque

    Aduesque Member

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    It was an awful post, I don't say that to you much so don't take it for more than what it was. Still, awful post.
  14. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

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    Unfortunately, you really need more than this. I can do this type of cherry picking over 5 years in favor of Jonathan Bornstein, for example.
  15. Aduesque

    Aduesque Member

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    He did it when he played them which is all you can ask for.
  16. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll dare ask this since you can no longer neg rep me but... At the senior level?
  17. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

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    Well looking at what he mentioned:

    A U-20 World Cup match 2007
    4 starts and 15 subs with Benfica, mostly in 2007
    Two US friendlies in 2008
    A Monaco friendly in 2009
    11 starts, 2 subs and 12 DNPs with Aris in early 2010
    Gold Cup Final 2011

    This whole thread is based on an invalid premise, since Nowak plays Adu on the right for Philadelphia when he plays him. But Adu's task right now is finally locking down a spot in the starting XI for Philly, not worrying about the US.
  18. Aduesque

    Aduesque Member

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    All of them outside of Brazil was at the SR level for club or country. I rarely use the rep system so you are okay.
  19. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

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    How the hell did I get dragged into this?!

    Your opinion seems to only held by you. All of his coaches seem to think Adu is nothing special. He couldn't even start for a MLS club last year. Once Adu has a full season where he puts up the numbers like Shea did last year then you can tell me that Adu is better than Shea. I predict an okay season for Adu because he just isn't as good as you paint him out to be.

    Also randomly listing nations/teams where Adu had an isolated incident does nothing to help your argument. I could say Bornstein is a good LB from listing some games where he made a good play, but that doesn't mean he is good. Know the difference.
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    One of Adu's problems was that he'd play well against a team like Argentina.........then disappear for 4 months...........then play well against Spain............and disappear for 4 months.............then play well against Mexico.........and disappear for 4 months. If the pattern holds he'll have just played well for the US U23's, but then do nothing of note for the Union for the next 4 months. Then people will wonder why he's not on WCQ rosters........

    Players don't earn callups based on a good substitute appearance against Spain years ago. That's utterly meaningless to Jurgen Klinsmann. What he wants to see is Freddy playing well NOW for the Union. With Freddy's stop-start club football existence, it's been hard for him to put a string of games together that demonstrate to the USMNT how good he is. People can say he played well for Aris. Sure, but he only played 9 league games for Aris.......some of them not starts. Others say he played well for Rizespor. Sure, but he only played 11 games for Rizespor .......some of them not starts. So people can make little YouTube highlights of those few appearances, but that's not a lot to go on in the grand scheme of things. He's had moments for the Union.....................but he's only played in 12 league games for the Union. Some of those not starts. We need to see more!!!!!!

    I mean, Freddy was on trial at a club in the relegation zone of Bundesliga II (Ingolstadt) last year. They decided not to sign him because they said he wasn't match fit enough to help them. That's what the USMNT staff has seen over the last couple of years too. He has talent, but his lack of games has made it difficult for the USMNT staff to pick him.
  21. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    This is why I should refrain from commenting on Freddy Adu matters.

    I like Freddy Adu and I think he is a good player. Just like I think Sacha Kljestan is a good player. But unfortunately for Sacha and Freddy they aren't better players than the ones currently in the starting 11 for the US team.

    I hope Freddy eventually is as good as some of his biggest fans rate him right now. He's a good person, he represents the US jersey with as much pride as any player I've seen and he does have talent. Unfortunately it seems that it's either or with him in any discussion. Either he's terrible or unassailable. Not sure why that is.
  22. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    This topic is about the national team, not MLS play. Adu has played significantly better than Shea ever has for both youth and senior national teams in the past
  23. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member

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    Yep, Freddy near term is a back up, and contrary to BS opinion we don't have depth in Dempseys position, because most likely Donovan will be on the field at the same time.

    Looking at the popular US formation (4,2,3,1)

    1rst Team:
    Forward: Jozy
    Wings: F Johnson, Donovan
    Supporting Striker: Dempsey

    2nd Team:
    Forward: Buddle
    Wings: Shea, Bradley?
    Supporting Striker: Adu (Buddle?)

    3rd Team:
    Forward: Gomez?, Boyd?
    Wings: Bedoya?, Rogers?, Beasley?, Gatt?, Corona?, Convey?
    Supporting Striker:

    We have many creative center mids (Holden, Klejstan, Bradley, Williams, Torres, etc) that play behind Dempsey, but we lack depth in Dempsey SS spot.

    Maybe Holden, Klejstan, Torress and Gatt could be Dempseys backup... or I like Rolf as a back up for this position... but they all have issues.

    Holden is a creatve CM not a SS, and we all know he is injured.
    Gatt is young and plays on the wings I think.
    Klejstan might work, but hasn't done that great when given oppurtunities with the NATS,.
    Rolf is a winger, and has not been called up.
    Torress plays similar to Holden as a creative CM not a SS.

    The formation I think Adu loses out in is the 442 diamond. There are way to many players that are better Wingers and Midfielders; and there are better Strikers as well, espically when Dempsy is included as a Striker.
  24. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

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    Interesting way of looking at things. I will take a slightly different tack and list depth by position. This highlights the fact that many of our attacking players are quite versatile and can play several positions. I will also use the tem wide attacking player (WAP) rather than wing, because several who can play a wide attacking role are in fact not wingers.

    So here is how I see the depth chart:

    Forward: Altidore, Buddle, Agudelo, Boyd, Sapong, Bunbury
    Supporting Striker: Dempsey, Donovan, Agudelo, Adu, Gomez, Wondo
    WAP: Donovan, Dempsey, Johnson, Chandler, Shea, Adu, Agudelo, Beasley, Rogers, Gatt

    Then there is the complicating factor that JK has used players who are really central mids as wide players or even supporting striker. So far he's done this with Bradley, Torres, Williams, Feilhaber, Zusi and Kljestan. I suspect he would be open to doing this with Mix and Holden.
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Except of course callups are often based on who's playing better at the time in club ball.

    We can argue around in circles and circles, but one thing is undeniable. Brek Shea has played in every game under Jurgen Klinsmann. Freddy Adu has played in none. How do we analyze that? It was because Brek had a great season in MLS, finishing 3rd in MVP voting. So he got a chance to show Klinsmann what he can do with the senior team. (He hasn't really taken advantage of the opportunity)

    If Freddy plays well with the Union this season, he'll get callups. Simple as that. If he doesn't...........he won't. It's up to him.
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