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It's time to stop playing Freddy out of position

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by soccersonoma10, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Yet coaches still want him. He's played in Portugal for the top team. He's played in Ligue 1. Got a loan offer from an EPL team. Even in the darker days of his career a B2 coach wanted him. He keeps getting fat checks. Bob picked him for the GC despite the lack of playing time and Adu almost saved bob's job. Hell, Porter made him captain.

    Coaches think he's special.
     


  2. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Near term for me is two years til WC time. Could see Chandler taking that right spot by then.
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Bornstein? no, not really. Earned a dangerous set piece against Ghana but otherwise there hasn't been much swashbuckling against strong side's in JB's career.
     
  4. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

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    Bornstein actually played pretty well in the world cup when he was called upon. Bornstein is terrible going forward and when he has bad games, it is because he tried going forward too often leaving his mark open.
     


  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    If Cherundolo's still the starting RB in 2014 I think we'll all be shocked. So thinking ahead to 2014 (a mistake I think, a lot will change between the semifinals, Hex, and then), Chandler is almost definitely a fullback, and Johnson is quite probably a LB as well. Which means by then that there's one attacking spot open for one of the young guys. Could be Adu, so far has been Shea (TBD if Klinsi sticks by him), could be Gatt, could be Gyau. Could be one of our CMs pushed into a nominal "attack" role.

    EDIT: If we're making early bets, and we begin by assuming that Chandler will be RB and Johnson LB in 2014, I'll bet that either that attacking slot goes to Shea or to one of the CMs a la Danny Williams recently, possibly a healthy Stu Holden. With Johnson and Chandler, you're probably going to look for these guys to push up into the attack quite frequently, both for the sake of a possession outlet and to stretch the field and gain width. Which means that one of the wingers is probably going to be a guy with some bite. A guy like Gatt or Gyau is a supersub in this sort of scenario, and a guy like Adu is probably a backup and alternate option for a different sort of game/opponent.
     
  6. TheNearPost

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    I'd say Adu deserves a call-up mainly because he seems to have done a lot of the growing that we've wanted out of him. He was really busting his ass for the U23's, running back, showing leadership, and hardly ever whining.

    And, to be honest with you, a "3" of Dempsey on the left, Donovan on the right, and Adu in the middle in a 4-2-3-1 sounds dangerous no matter what. I'd like to see it used at least once, because I don't think we ever got the chance under Bob Bradley.
     
  7. Maximum Optimal

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    If Johnson and Chandler are the fullbacks, then the candidates for fourth attacker are by 2014 (and I'll list them in my order of likelihood): Shea, Agudelo, Adu, Boyd, Gomez (will be 32), Gatt.

    I think there is a good chance that one of Johnson or Chandler is the fourth attacker. This means we need a fullback to replace them. Candidates (and again I'll list them in order of likelihood) are: Cherundolo (so far aging pretty well), Castillo, Lichaj, Shea, Spector.

    To me the best outcome for the nats is Shea transfers to Europe and his new team moves him to left back. I think Shea at left back and Johnson at left mid is much preferable to Johnson at left back and Shea at left mid. Johnson is the more polished, creative, clever attacking player. A significant part of his value is lost at left back.

    My ideal 2014 team, with everything going right looks like this:

    ---------------------Altidore---------------------
    ---Johnson----------Dempsey--------Donovan----
    --------------Torres---------Bradley-------------
    --Shea--------Ream--------Onyewu----Chandler--
    ---------------------Howard----------------------

    Adu, Agudelo and Boyd would give us terrific attacking options off the bench. We'll be deep at central mid. I could see Boca and Cherundolo making the team, but more likely as reserves than starters. Chandler and Shea are potentially a very dynamic pair of fullbacks. Guys who would be very dangerous bombing forward.
     
  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    Mexico in the GC final last summer.
     
  9. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Johnson was one of the top assist men in the B1(currently has 4) before getting shifted to left back. With the US he's already shown how pivotal he can be in creating goals. Would be great if there were an adequate left back to field in '14 thus allowing him to move into the attack. Unfortunately Johnson is probably stuck at fullback.

    If I had to rank the options for the fourth attacker spot in '14.

    1. Holden - can he come all the way back? 2 goals and 3 dimes in 8 games worth of action in '09. Was pretty lethal from the outside and serving dead balls for the US.

    2. Adu - unprecendented skill. needs to find the consistency at club level.

    3. Shea - needs to catch up with the speed of the international game

    4. Agudelo - smoother than Shea. needs to find his way into the starting lineup somewhere.
     
  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    This much I definitely agree with. Johnson is much more multi-dimensional, but I would be pleased to have the luxury of a horse like Shea to come charging out of the backfield several times a game on an overlap.
     
  11. TheNearPost

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    Donovan wasn't in the band of three. He was up top. Adu, Dempsey and Bedoya were the band of three.
     
  12. LouisZ

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    offensive wise that is his best position, unfortunately he is not that good of a defender and normaly his engine is not that great. I said normaly because he did hustle a lot in the ES game.
     
  13. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    you are right, but i think maybe he has outgrown his "no defense" phase, or at least he is working harder to pressure and get behind the ball when he doesn't have it. i'd like to see freddy command the ball a little bit more for philly. that being said, i'd like to see him at pretty much an MLS team besides philly, as i don't think that nowak really puts freddy in the best position to succeed
     
  14. voros

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    There's a benefit to this in that if Adu doesn't know what he's going to do next, neither does the defender. We have an entire nation of players who telegraph everything we're about to do to the opposition before we do it. It's maddening some times.

    And it's institutional. The #1 weakness of the USWNT (which has none of the player pool excuses of the men) is the inability to pull off the unexpected. They just attempt to steamroller everyone in their way with pure advantages in raw talent. For a while those talent advantages were huge enough to make the difference, and to an extent they still are.
     
  15. voros

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    This is what I'd like to see too, particularly because I think those three have the skill and awareness to move about and switch spots back and forth.

    But ultimately I don't think it matters much. I've resigned myself to a lost generation after Donovan and Dempsey are gone. Shame.
     
  16. Marko72

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    I don't know if it's just the way he plays right now, or if it was just a matter of playing that way in the quals, but one thing that impressed me about Adu's game was his commitment.
     
  17. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    i agree. like i said, i think it was kind of a maturity thing. people forget how young 22 is in american soccer. at this age, guys like dempsey were in their final year of playing in college, and adu has 8 years experience playing at a (relatively) high level. i still think he will be an important player for our national team in time. once dempsey and donovan are gone, we will really need freddy to step up and be our creative force
     
  18. LouisZ

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    You do realize our coach is JK not BB? Demps hasn't played either wing under JK, so I don't think it would matter if LD gets healthy and takes his rightfull place in the right wing. The issue is Shea is the only option, at the LM/LW sometimes he gets hot, more times he doesn't. The only way Shea doesn't start is if Chandler takes the LB and Johnson bumps Shea to the bench.
     
  19. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    Alternatively Johnson takes left back and Chandler takes right wing and Donovan takes the left side as the two Bundesliga boys have been doing for their clubs.

    That puts Shea on the bench, but as everyone knows we've yet to see everybody healthy for a game and as we all should know, that's a luxury anyway. Shea is obviously going to be a key part of the team for qualifying.
     
  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    I thought the players made Adu captain.
     
  21. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    I don't think Adu can play RW with the senior team. He doesn't have the pace nor the consistency to do so. In my opinion I think he could play a Feilhaber role, coming off the bench for an offensive spark. I don't think Adu is starter material at the moment.
     
  22. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    You know your comment has legs...Chandler has been playing more and more the RM position, not sure if it has anything to do with his contract issues, but that could also work for our NATS. I wonder if the RM position may be an option for Chandler to fully commit for us, as you know is not locked yet.
     
  23. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    That was later disputed by the coaches. Who knows though.

    I'll certainly take Chandler over Danny Williams.
     
  24. soccersonoma10

    soccersonoma10 Member

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    ah yes, based on his outstanding form, both for the senior national team and in the mls:rolleyes:
     
  25. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

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    No just based on reality.
     
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