Las Vegas is viable

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by DANNO49, May 25, 2009.

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  1. DANNO49

    DANNO49 Member

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    If Vegas doesn't get an outright expansion team they will be in MLS. There are two cities right now that are about to lose their franchises. Columbus and Washington DC. Columbus for attendence that stinks even after doing the double.DC United because they can't get a stadiium deal done. Vegas would be a good alteritative. Hell I'd plan sick or vaction days just for the roadie. Of course some of the fan clubs in LA sould be banded because they drink so much they couldn't find the stadium. And the bars don't close in Vegas,:D


  2. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

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    So why exactly is it viable? And why would Columbus be moved if they have committed owners and a SSS.
    danKohner repped this.
  3. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    Even if either of these teams were to move --- which IMHO isn't happening --- what makes Vegas the answer? There are 5-6 cities which would be a much better solution than Vegas.
  4. Chowda

    Chowda Member

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    This thread belongs in the MLS N&A forum. Very insightful.

    And for the record, Las Vegas deserves a team.


  5. 4door

    4door Member+

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    it is viable the moment someone comes up with 40M and a plan for a SSS.

    People always scream for some kind of massive dome for potential teams in the Desert, and I always found that silly. Remember we play in March and in October, day games during the spring and fall are fine in fact will be pretty nice. As far as summer goes, all games can start at night when the sun is setting (why a SSS is needed). Vegas or Phoenix in the summer at night is very acceptable playing conditions, much better than Dallas or Houston during the day. A Pizza Hut Park sized stadium within a few miles of the strip would be an amazing addition to the league.

    I think the reason why MLS is interested in Vegas is for a few reasons.

    - growing population
    - large hispanic population
    - large market with no pro team (no idea why no one talks about Austin for the same reason)
    - major tourist city
    - traveling distance to Chivas USA, LA Galaxy, San Jose Quakes games

    What would be cool about Vegas is that it can market itself within the hotels to international audiences. There are something like 2 million visitors at any time in Vegas and a good percentage of those people are from around the world. Yes, people from Arkansas are going to probably check out Carrot Top, but a family from europe who can go see a pro game for $20 a ticket might check it out. A big DP would be needed to market to the international crowd though.

    The tourist aspect of the city plus the fact that there are no pro rivals makes it interesting but not viable until someone starts signing major checks.
  6. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    Do people really think MLS is the first sport to stumble upon Vegas. :confused:

    There are legitimate reasons as to why Vegas is a large market with no pro team.
  7. Dave Brull

    Dave Brull Member

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    I hate the meme regarding Columbus attendance that is repeated spewed by the utterly stupid.

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance?league=usa.1&year=2009&&cc=5901

    Our attendance isn't great but Limpy the OP needs to find a new playtoy.

    And as much as I hate to say it, anyone thinking about moving DC (at this point in time anyway) should be forced to listen to Saputo repeatedly give the reasons that his initial expansion bid had merit.
    C-bus repped this.
  8. 4door

    4door Member+

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    Well commissioners have always said no to the gambling issue, Garber said he doesn't care. I would be surprised if the Sacramento Kings aren't moved to Vegas in the next few years as well, the All Star game there was kinda the unofficial David Stern giving his blessing to NBA Vegas.

    I think we can all agree that the loss of the Sonics in Seattle at least helped the boost of the Sounders. There are just a lot of people who wanted to take their kids out to games this spring that couldn't because their basketball team was gone, so Sounders tickets sounded like a good idea. Of course the marketing there was amazing and I give them tons of credit, but lack of NBA competition helped. The only Fire game I didn't go to this season was to watch game 7 of the Bulls for instance and I'm a season ticket holder. In Vegas the competition is from other entertainment not just sporting of course but being the only pro sport in town is at least interesting from a league perspective.
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    The problems with Vegas are:

    - Hot Hot Hot
    - A transient population with out a lot of commitment to "home"
    - Many of those that do live in Vegas and are committed to the city work in the entertainment industry. This means they are working nights and weekends and not going to MLS games.
  10. leg_breaker

    leg_breaker Member

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    I very much doubt it. Vegas isn't really a family destination to Europeans, and they wouldn't be interested at all in MLS.
  11. chapka

    chapka Member+

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    Also, anyone who thinks gambling isn't an issue needs to look at Delaware. The NFL is spending a ton of money and likely to spend a ton more trying to block Delaware from creating a legal state-run sports book. And that's in a state whose highest professional sports team is the single-A Wilmington Blue Rocks.

    Professional sports leagues are allergic to gambling because of the perception of corruption, and having a team in Las Vegas, espeically close to the Strip, is certain to make them nervous. If the right ownership group stepped up I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but Vegas is starting with one strike against it.
  12. The 92nd Fish

    The 92nd Fish Member

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    I doubt nearly two million people work in the entertainment industry, Vegas is about much more than the strip these days. Theres a good deal of company headquarters there and as we all know a hell of a lot of conferencing going on, which of course tends to go on during the day on weekdays.
  13. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator Staff Member

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    Thus the use of the word "many" and not "all" :rolleyes:
  14. bright

    bright Member

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    I don't think you can compare football and basketball with soccer in terms of the American gambling culture. Football and basketball are heavily tied to gambling in this country, but soccer is not. I think that is one reason why Garber isn't worried about the gambling angle.

    Also, professional soccer has tried to make it in Las Vegas before. NASL had the Quicksilvers in 1977, ASL had the Seagulls in 1978, and MISL had the Americans in 1985. So there is a track record for pro soccer ignoring the gambling angle.

    The economy is much more diversified and is still diversifying. Not everyone works at a casino or hotel these days. Consider the following:

    In 1980, there were 463,087 people in Clark County.

    From 1985 to 1995, the county population increased from 562,280 to 1,036,180.

    In 2000, there were 1,375,765 people in Clark County.

    As of 2008, there are an estimated 1,996,542 people in Clark County.

    The entertainment industry alone cannot sustain that population. Remember, there is no income tax and very low corporate tax which encourages businesses to locate in Nevada.

    Also, as for tourists from Europe, I used to run into a ton of Germans every time I hiked in Utah. It became a funny game among my friends to wonder how far into our hike we would encounter a German family. For people who are visiting the Grand Canyon or Death Valley, Las Vegas is the closest home base. So there are actually a lot of tourists who come to Las Vegas for the outdoor destinations as well as the gambling and party atmosphere.
  15. ATLSoccer

    ATLSoccer New Member

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    1. Could be solved with a retractable roof. Every plan I have heard about LV has had a retractable roof or dome.

    2. The suburbs are not as transient as the main city. Those in entertainment usually stay in downtown Vegas.

    3. That could work in MLS' favor, drawing in away fans, especially from the western conference. In the summer a lot of fans would be willing to take a trip to Vegas when they wouldn't want to go to say, Salt Lake or Portland.
  16. leg_breaker

    leg_breaker Member

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    I don't understand the gambling aspect. Why would putting a team in Vegas make it more or less likely for someone to fix it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you already bet on the NFL, MLB etc, even though they don't have teams in Vegas? I don't see what difference it would make.

    You can bet on any sport you want in the UK but they still play NFL games here.
  17. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

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    Yeah, and there are "bet.com" or something like that ads all over the digital ad boards during the games.

    The first league that takes a chance and taps the Vegas market will "hit the jackpot" so to speak. There are a lot of people who live and work there, and seeing how they probably deal with it all day long, they probably don't want to gamble or see a show every night. Pro sports would do fine there.

    For MLS all they would need is a) plenty of night games and b) not necessarily of full fledged roof, but a retractable shade of some sort over the entire stadium(field included).
  18. chapka

    chapka Member+

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    I'm not convinced. Right now, Las Vegas has one professional outdoor sports team: the AAA Las Vegas 51s.

    Out of 30 AAA teams across the country, Las Vegas is one of the largest markets at 1.3 million, and it's the only one without any major league sports teams to compete.

    Right now, the 51s are 25th of 30 in AAA attendance (through May 1), averaging 4,528 fans a game. Among the teams outdrawing them are:

    Lehigh Valley IronPigs. Attendance 8,167; population 800,000.
    Toledo. Attendance 6,632; population 650,000.
    Reno. Attendance 6,538; population 410,000.
    Fresno. Attendance 6,282; population 900,000.
    Scranton-Wilkes-Barre. Attendance 4,783; population 550,000.

    Wikipedia also lists Vegas as having 22 defunct teams in various sports, only five of which lasted more than two years, and none of which lasted more than five.

    I'm not saying the right team wouldn't be a success; just that there's more than superstition behind thinking that Vegas might not be the spectacular market its size and lack of competition might suggest.
  19. BringSoccerToIndy

    BringSoccerToIndy Member

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    You do know what happened at that All-Star Game? Shootings and overall chaos. Throw in the Donaghy scandal and the NBA will never put a team in Vegas.
    ChrisCastig repped this.
  20. ChefJim27

    ChefJim27 Member

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    To be fair, however, the shooting involved a NFL player named after a bad video game fad from the 80's. I personally think Vegas doesn't fly. The last 4 expansion clubs all had vibrant supporters in place before the club was announced. If they plopped a club on the strip, would it be Seattle or the Miami Fusion? Answer that question, and we'll talk.
  21. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

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    Hi.

    I live here. You don't.

    Nice to meet you.

    You're daft.
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  22. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

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    i dont know how you guys in vegas or phoenix do it in the summer, it is stupid hot there in the summer time. and to think i used to lived there and played in it in the summer time :eek:, my tolerance for that kind of heat has totally dissappeared. Played a college match in UNLV the first game of the season and i felt like i was going to at half time.

    If vegas gets a stadium, itd better have the air conditioning system of the gods. That thing better be able to suck in seagulls from seattle
  23. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana BigSoccer Supporter

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    As much as I love LV, and would love to see a desert-based team, I agree, as a former Phoenician (PV) that sitting in that weather for soccer is rough. Proudly did it for my high school, but no more.
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

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    You really think they are about to move those two clubs?
  25. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

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    No matter how many times you say it, there are going to be those who assume that because the RFK situation is untenable, DCU is moving in December. Even though Chang has said he wants to get it right, not necessarily quickly, if it comes to that.

    As for Columbus, there was a brouhaha about it when a group of investors from Vegas either was going to buy in or did (I don't think they did) and the columnist from the Dispatch went all "They're moving! You watch!" when it's ludicrous.

    In any case, Columbus' attendance is not a huge concern right now. IF that was the criteria, Dallas would be on the block before Columbus, and neither one of those franchises is moving.

    So, no.
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