Lesson from Spain-Italy

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Spain never stretched the defense in this game at an acceptable level. They created basically three chances the entire game, two bad angle shots and the goal (extremely close to being called back for offside and handball). For me, that's not good enough with the talent Spain has and I don't think they will contend like this, but time will tell.


  2. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    I walked away from this match with the exact opposite opinion. I felt that Spain for the first time learned from their mistakes. Rather than get 'Chelsead' they were content to hold possession for possessions sake, make some darting, but conservative runs, and kept their defense in good formation. With Pique and the Sergio's allowing themselves only a few runs forward. This was a mature performance against a very good team.

    Croatia played a very good defensive match. They had 8 or 9 big bodies positioned behind the ball and they were well coached.
  3. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Yes, they were and they actually had the better scoring chances. Which isn't right despite Croatia's positives.
  4. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    One thing to look for moving forward, each team has one absolute stinker of a match per tournament. Sweden had theirs against the Ukraine. France against England. Which leaves England. Normally I would have them losing this match late or drawing 1-1, but Rooney is coming in like a raging bull. If he can keep from getting a red card, his energy will take this team through.

    I think only Germany of all the teams has yet to have a bad match. But it will come. I should start a thread title: how to beat zie germans.

    It wont be easy, but Serbia and Ghana did a fine job in the last WC of blue printing how to beat them with inferior talent. Strong 5 man midfield with a brute of a CB and speed. 4-5-1 with early crosses and midfielders take turns making runs for the counter so it morphs into a 3-5-2 on attack. I think Ozil, Lahm and Podolski are the weak links right now.


  5. Lascho

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    Germany plays very different now.
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  6. Mestes

    Mestes BigSoccer Supporter

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    I might grudgingly agree with Lahm and Podolski, but Ozil? Not quite at the WC2010 level, but in my opinion, still super.
  7. Excellency

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    Croatia's mistake was tactical: When behind 1-0 and needing a goal, there comes a time when the back passes back to GK or other backs even if it is dangerous because his team has to get the ball in to the other end to get opportunities. The Croatian backs kept clearing blindly to midfield where Spain simply took the ball down and came right back at them - with 10 minutes left for Croatia to score a goal or they go home. Which they did. Go home, that is. But they didn't lose 2-0. They lost 1-0. No embarrassing picture in the paper of humiliating mistake at end of game. That's a plus.
  8. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    There are two guys on the bench (kroos, reus) who might be better. I think Ozil is a good player, but I guess I've just never been a fan. Just one of those players others love a heck of a lot more than I do. Kroos and Reus would give you a much more direct style of play and at a higher pace, but Jogi is smart, no need to show all your cards in the first three matches.
  9. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Spain played it close to the vest and just like any other team in the world, their backline had some shaky moments, but they weathered things well. That one inspirational Modric run and outside of right foot perfect pass to open man was the entire game for them.

    Croatia played essentially for that ONE play of brilliance. Spain played for many small ones. Volume of chances beat quality of chances this game.
  10. Skippysasquirrel

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    Agree. Despite his goal (which there was no excuse not to make), I've been extremely disappointed with Podolski this time around. And Ozil has been fine :p
  11. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Well, Woy could not have asked for a better team, save I guess the Czech's for the quarter final. Italy has it in them to win this tournament, but Woy coached in Italy and is as meticulous as they are in his plans. This is what Woy looks for out of his team:

    1. No easy crosses. His top flat 4 will make the pitch narrow and cut out the cross, funneling play through the middle.
    2. Not out of position for the counter. They were caught out late against the Ukraine because the subs, Ox, Walcot and AC were young and decided to pressure in a shapeless fashion. That probably wont happen again.
    3. Defensive pressure from the top 2. When the ball lingers in the center of the midfield or along the midfield stripe those strikers are expected to pressure and win back possession.
    4. Hold up play for flick on or to the corners. The striker has only two things to do, hold the ball for on rushing pass for a shot or go to corner marker and wait for reenforcements.
    5. Early cross out of midfield into the box. We saw it with Jayrard to AC. Incidentally has there been a better player in this tournament than Stevy Jayrard? Not for my money. They are lost without him. Also, he doesnt have off footed wingers to cut in and take a shot. This team is built for wide play and crossing.
    6. Low risk, high percentage football wins tournaments. You know you are doing something right when everyone in the stands, media and on the internet is telling you your team looks terrible, the other team should win going away and yet you squeak out 3 results. That's how champions are made, one high percentage play after another. How many times have we played Italy or Germany and thought we were better on the day only to lose?
    7. Attack with purpose. When England get forward there is singular purpose to it, play smart for the high percentage shot. Nothing fancy here.

    Rooney looked fat and slow. AC is playing some terrific football. Ox is not ready yet to start again.

    Come on England!
  12. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

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    If you are going to take a lesson from Spain, to me it is that you can be overly conservative to the point you put your own team at risk. It is a lesson Klinsmann should pay attention to.
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  13. Sam Hamwich

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    Csec said they had never once practiced a 3-6-0 formation they used against Italy and were only told that morning they were playing it. Two games later he pins back the midfield and the defenders and has them play relatively conservative.

    No coach in his right mind plays mind games like these unless he has a broader plan in mind. How do you teach a team that has won everything, how to overcome losing without allowing them to lose? I think Del Bosque is bloody brilliant...or a fool. At any rate, teams have to now ask themselves, which Spain they will be playing?
  14. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Serbia Blue Print to Beat Germany:

    Step 1: Get a man advantage by having a player sent off in the 37th minute on a second yellow more dubious than first.

    Step 2: Exploit man advantage and score goal.

    Step 3: Hold lead with man advantage, win 1-0

    Ghana Blue Print to Beat Germany:

    Step 1: Lose 0-1
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  15. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    We have very few examples to pull from. Unless your team is Spain, how do you beat the germans? Those were the two matches of recent memory that show a means to potentially beat them.

    Serbia was so deep inside the German side, Klose had a tattoo of Vidic on his ass. They controlled the tempo, the players and the match. And they did it without superstars. Ghana is much the same. They were a bizarre Uruguayan penalty away from the Semis and dominated Germany in their earlier match.

    But I know the trend on these boards is to always talk about things AFTER the mistake, AFTER the 2nd viewing, AFTER the obvious has been rammed down your throats 50 times. Very little actual strategic effort is put into how to beat a superior opponent with limited means before the fact.

    Just thought a discussion on how to beat a German team that appears to be almost flawless would be interesting. They have the best keeper in the tournament. They have the best midfield in the tournament. The most underrated CB tandem. They have the hardest working wing player in Mueller...They have the deepest bench.

    Tough nut to crack. Realistically only Spain or Italy have even a remote shot. Maybe if C.Ronaldo and Nani can get back on defense and finish some long range shots, they have a chance.
  16. deuteronomy

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    Yes, absolutely correct . . .
  17. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Plato is a born striker.
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  18. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Oh, zeal.

    missed a sitter.
  19. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    To borrow a phrase, the Greeks a Thermopylae of soccer style.
  20. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

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    Like I said at the beginning of this tourney. Del Boring.

    I'd pay to see him sit Sergio (a complete redundancy on this team) and bring in one of Spain's gifted attackers.

    Amazing that Silva and Iniesta are so good Del Boring is getting away with this crap.
  21. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    Spain becomes the first defending champ to reach the EURO semis since the Netherlands in 1992.

    They have posted eight straight shutouts in major-tourney knockout games.

    "I'm not strong, nor fast, nor skillful, I'm a player from the street. Without my team-mates, without space, I am nothing." Xavi

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/andy-mitten/xavi-still-spain-pass-master-092252992.html

    Seems like only yesterday, that we sent them home from the Confederations Cup.
  22. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member

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    In my opinion, Ozil is player of the tournament thus far. Such intelligent movement, creativity, and he provides the critical link between the midfield base and attackers. He's demonstrated this with (essentially) converted forwards or players who are naturally more comfortable wide.

    If the final is Germany-Spain, I see Ozil as the key. His drifting to the outside means he could create against Arbeloa / Alba instead of facing the packed center of Alonso / Busquets / Pique / Ramos.
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  23. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    That is, if Germany even gets to see the ball.
    The Spain game today was as boring as it was impressive.

    I am wondering though why in this tournament not one team has been able to put up a fight and make it a real battle.
  24. RiceBubble

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    France definitely needed some more "nasty" in the match today. Showed Spain way to much respect. Besides the spell in the beginning of the second half, France really didn't offer up La Roja much resistance. Ribery was pretty good for them in their moments, but it wasn't enough. Someone needs to keep everyone's ego in check. They would've had a chance if they were willing to push themselves and fight for each other more.
    Kind of amazing to think that we knocked Spain of the Confederations Cup semifinals with a 2-0 victory.

    Such a euphoric day. Hope we schedule a friendly against them in the future. It would be interesting to see how we measure up against them after last year's defeat.
  25. Mestes

    Mestes BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm also curious about his drifting to the outside. I'm convinced he does it because he feels he gets a better vantage point to view the field. His field vision is sublime, and his teammates know it, because whenever they "run out of ideas," they look for him.

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