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Man City Owners Pondering Bid for NY II; Red Bull Having Second Thoughts?

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by triplet1, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    REASON WILL PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     


  2. wandering soccerdog

    wandering soccerdog Member

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    What I'm guessing (and hoping) will happen is that Manchester City will own the "City FC" franchise (already trademarked by MLS) -- and it will be placed in New York City -- in Queens.

    And the Red Bulls will sell their team to the new "Cosmos" ownership, and the existing team in Harrison will be re-branded as the "Cosmos."

    This would be the right thing to do -- and the smart thing to do.

    The current Red Bulls fanbase in northern New Jersey and Manhattan *ARE* the Cosmos fanbase from the glory days -- and the "Red Bulls" name is widely despised and/or laughed at.

    It would be proper to return the traditional "Cosmos" name to the fanbase that made it legendary.

    Just like the Earthquakes, Sounders, Timbers, Whitecaps, Strikers and Rowdies got their traditional name back in their traditional markets, northern New Jersey and Manhattan (PATH-accessible to Harrison) should get the Cosmos name back, too.

    Let Queens have "City FC."
     
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  3. Zoidberg

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    I missed u so much.
     
  4. 4door

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    If you wanted to go down that road it would in fact be much more logical that both reported trademarks would be used. Manchester City would form NY City FC (City FC trademark) and be located in Queens and some other ownership group would take over the Red Bulls with the name NY Empire (Empire FC) since the Red Bulls/Metrostars original name was Empire Soccer Club and the supporters group is Empire Supporters Club. That teams has a REAL connection to the name Empire where in fact they have no actual connection to the Cosmos. Sure maybe some fans from the 70s Cosmos might still be around and fans of RBNY but that connect is much weaker than Empire SC since that was the actual original name of the club.

    What to do with the Cosmos? If they have real money then let them build something in another borough (Brooklyn probably) or have them set up permanently in Long Island since that is where they are starting now. 3 teams in a metro area of 18M isn't any 'crazier' than 1 team in a metro are alike Salt Lake with about 1.5M people if there is market demand. NHL has 3 teams in the area in NJ-NYC-Long Island. To get to 3 teams might take a decade or more and would require a huge market shift in the interest of MLS but we've already seen a pretty large market shift when comparing MLS of 2001 or 2002 (retraction era) and MLS of 2012. If in a decade we have that kind of new growth in interest in the game, then maybe 3 teams could work. If there is not the market for 3 teams then they won't happen. My point is that if you are counting NJ-NYC-Long Island as one area, in theory a US pro sports league COULD have 3 teams. I don't think it will happen, but I don't think its impossible if there is enough fan interest and investor interest. Cosmos/Empire/City as the east coast version of Sounders/Timbers/Whitecaps? Ha, sounds good to me if there are enough fans and investors on board!
     


  5. The 92nd Fish

    The 92nd Fish Member

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    So much nonsense in this thread it's unbelievable. MLS have been burned in the past by Chivas USA and also Red Bull, there's no way there's going to be anymore corporately sponsored teams or extensions of foreign clubs.

    The Abu Dhabi Sheikhs have run Manchester City very well, compare their faith in Mancini with Abramovich's trigger happy approach to firing managers and are currently investing huge sums into the club's youth network. They're savvy guys and realise how much exposure it's gained Abu Dhabi and also Emirates. If they bought the NYC franchise, they'd probably run it in a similar way and I'm 99% certain they wouldn't run it as an outpost of Manchester City, it'd be a separate concern.

    The reference to 'city' franchises in the telegraph article is clearly referring to Abu Dhabi seeing the benefit of being associated with various cities and the strength of their brandname. Manchester has done well for them, the potential of being associated with the brand power of 'New York City' is even more, especially if they try to expand Emirates further .
     
  6. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    How has MLS been "burned" by Red Bull?
     
  7. wandering soccerdog

    wandering soccerdog Member

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    You're on the right track.

    That's why MLS trademarked "Empire FC," as well, I think. It's a hedge in case the "Cosmos" name doesn't work out.

    If Manchester City will own "City FC" in Queens, and if the Red Bulls are going to be re-branded, then the "Empire FC" name would make sense for the Harrison club because the fanclub named themselves the "Empire Supporters Club" when the original corporate name of the New York/New Jersey MetroStars was actually "Empire FC" in 1995, as you stated above.

    But I can't see Don Garber passing up using the "Cosmos" name again if it is, in any way, available. He has learned the power of the "Cosmos" brand and knows what it could do for MLS.

    "Cosmos" would be better than "Empire FC" for a million reasons.

    No one has ever attended an "Empire FC" match.
    No one has an "Empire FC" signed soccer ball on their shelf.
    No one has "Empire FC" jerseys in their closet.
    No one has memories of "Empire FC" winning any championships.
    No one remembers their dad taking them to an "Empire FC" game.

    Using that name would be starting from scratch -- again -- for the third time in less than 20 years.

    For all of those reasons above, the "Cosmos" name is much, much more valuable.

    It would *not* be starting over from scratch. It would be re-launching a brand that already has legs and legend.

    Manchester City will want "City FC" to actually be in the *City.*

    And northern New Jersey was "Cosmos Country" and should be again.

    It's really a no-brainer.
     
  8. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

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    What if the UAE and the Qatar groups tell MLS, "Let us in or we're buying NASL?"
     
  9. The 92nd Fish

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    Just look at this forum, the Borough Boys and how even in one of the best stadiums in the league with top tier talent, the Red Bulls can't even make a dent in the NYC sports market. If it wasn't for Chivas USA sticking around and stinking up the joint, the Red Bulls would be the worst branding in the entire league and this is me speaking as someone who thinks the whole 'Red Bulls aren't New York' argument is stupid. It's sad really because Red Bull could still own the team, the stadium naming rights and have massive Red Bull sponsorship across the shirt while calling the franchise something different and they'd be much more credible. Not that I don't respect how much the company has invested into the league mind.
     
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  10. tab5g

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    All of that, and Red Bulls would be (or would certainly appear to be) "more New York" if they opted to re-brand as Cosmos or Empire FC.

    MLS team20 will be plenty "New York" (assuming that Queens stadium is built), based on that location and any reasonable/likely team name that will surely include "New York" and/or "City."
     
  11. tab5g

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    "MLS welcomes this news and we look forward to a continued great relationship with the second division in the US/Canada as it continues to work (and invest and spend) to improve and strengthen itself."
     
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  12. sidefootsitter

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    The fact that it's second division is irrelevant because there's no pro/rel.

    It'd just be a competing league.

    If, let's say, the royal families from UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain wanted to run a "second" US league, they could absolutely dwarf MLS and its puny by comparisons budgets.
     
  13. looknohands

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    ...and how long would they be happy, losing money over fist? Are they going to own every team in the league? If not, what investor is going to jump in and try to compete with their spending power?
     
  14. looknohands

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    ...and how long would they be happy, losing money over fist? Are they going to own every team in the league? If not, what investor is going to jump in and try to compete with their spending power?

    Double post for emphasis:D
     
  15. JasonMa

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    They could, but they would have to overcome the inertia of MLS being established in major markets. I don't think any city outside maybe the top 3 or 4 (NY obviously, Chicago, LA, Houston) could support another team right now. Same with the Canadian cities. So if they want to run a league with NY2, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, San Antonio, Phoenix, Sacramento, Ottowa, and Edmonton, more power to them Good luck with that.

    (And that assumes that the USSF or FIFA doesn't get involved)
     
  16. jond

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    The USSF is known for money grabs. We see it with our NT games all the time. There's little chance they turn away big money if it were to hypothetically happen.
     
  17. Justin O

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    Then why, for example, does the US play it's home qualifiers against Mexico in Columbus, not LA? It's not like they need to beat Mexico to qualify for the World Cup anyway.
     
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  18. wandering soccerdog

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    The scenario you're playing out here is basically Donald Trump's "USFL" strategy from the early '80s -- set up a competing league to force a merger (or a folding).

    But there could be something bigger at stake....

    And it's an idea I wrote about years ago....

    And the Cosmos would very much be involved.....

    It's....(wait for it).....

    The GPL! The Global Premier League!

    It had kind of been discussed on the European level in the past -- have a breakaway "NFL-style" no-promotion-relegation "Euro-League" with all of the wealthy clubs: Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Bayern Munich, etc.

    But I've always believed that the "Euro-League" concept was thinking too small. Leaves out North America, South America, etc. Can't be a true international league unless it's...well...international. And you can't be global unless you're in New York.

    So imagine this instead....

    Imagine a Global Premier League with this lineup:

    New York Cosmos
    Los Angeles
    Chivas
    Boca Juniors
    River Plate
    Santos
    Sao Paolo
    Manchester United
    Chelsea
    Liverpool
    Arsenal
    PSG
    Bayern Munich
    Bayer Leverkeusen
    AC Milan
    Juventus
    Real Madrid
    Barcelona
    Etc.

    THAT is very much what I would do if I were the Sheik-of-All-Arab-Oil-Wealth.

    And then I'd give the international broadcast rights to my buddies at Al Jazeera.

    It would be like a license to print money.

    THAT is the escalated danger to MLS if MLS doesn't play ball with these guys.

    MLS franchises could not survive in New York and Los Angeles if there were "GPL" teams playing in those markets. And if MLS doesn't have New York and Los Angeles, it basically becomes something like the Scottish League without Rangers and Celtic.
     
  19. JasonMa

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    Except for the cross-over between the MLS leadership and the USSF leadership...
     
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  20. sitruc

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    Have you been to a US match?
     
  21. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    Why would the New York Red Bulls appear to be more "New York" if they were instead New York Cosmos or New York Empire?
     
  22. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

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    Dude, it's past time to take your meds.
     
  23. Justin O

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    Um...yes.
     
  24. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

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    Did you pay for the ticket?
     
  25. Justin O

    Justin O Member+

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    Um.....yes.
     
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