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Match 21 - CRO : ESP - STARK (GER)

Discussion in 'Euro 2012: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 17, 2012.

Moderators: MassachusettsRef
  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Monday, 18 June - Gdansk - 2:45 EST
    Croatia : Spain
    Referee: Wolfgang STARK (GER)
    Assistant Referee 1: Jan-Hendrik Salver (GER)
    Assistant Referee 2: Mike Pickel (GER)
    Additional Assistant Referee 1: Florian Meyer (GER)
    Additional Assistant Referee 2: Deniz Aytekin (GER)
    Fourth Official: Richard Liesveld (NED)
    Reserve Assistant Referee: Sander van Roekel (NED)
    UEFA Delegate: Christian Schmöelzer (AUT)
    UEFA Referee Observer: Kyros Vassaras (GRE)

    This thread is for all pre-, play-by-play, and post-match discussion of the referee and other officials on the match. Only news and analysis or other facts/information related to the referees and the officiating should be posted here. This is not a team or rivalry thread and will be heavily moderated to ensure it remains that way. Please read the stickied thread at the top of this forum if you have further questions. Thank you.
     


  2. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

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    It started...Stark had to stop the game for a smoke bomb already, but it's going smoothly.
     
  3. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Sergio Ramos had a nasty challenge on Mandzukic in the 30th minute. Big non-call by Stark - that was a bad tackle and if Mandzukic hadn't pulled out he could have been seriously injured.

    A penalty and a yellow at the least, but Stark afraid to make the call against group favourites (he was positioned well enough to see the challenge, but the 4th official was right in front of it). Instead hands out a yellow to Croatia for complaining.

    That said there is doubt whether Ramos didn't get the ball in the process. Nonetheless the attack was pretty reckless.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Yellow card for Srna was easy as well.
     


  5. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member

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    Didn't see it - how do KNOW this?
     
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  6. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

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    Plenty there for a pk???
     
  7. puyol

    puyol Member+

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    yeah busquets almost ripped his shirt off , lucky the ref didnt see it i guess
     
  8. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    Two good decisions from the AR on the goal.
     
  9. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

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    OK, bottom line, if I were a Croat, I would be really mad about 2 pk decisions.
     
  10. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

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    They only showed the replay once, but it appeared to me that Spain was offside on the lone goal.
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    [​IMG]

    Iniesta (top) was on as the ball was played to him.

    [​IMG]

    Navas was on the ball was played to him.
     
  12. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

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    If that ball is to Iniesta on the left he's not off.

    Yeah it was...look at the grass he was on.
     
  13. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Wrong.

    Navas was offside on initial play. The moment he became active in the play (Iniesta's pass) the AR should have signalled for offside and dissallowed the goal.

    2 poor non-PK calls against Croatia and an offside goal. Not a good day for Croats.
     
  14. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

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    No you do not understand offside. When Iniesta passes it to Navas he is on and it is a new play. It does not matter that he was off on the pass to Iniesta because he is not involved in that play.
     
  15. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    Sorry but you are wrong. When Iniesta passes the ball to him he has gotten into an onside position.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Completely incorrect and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
     
  17. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Mass:
    Whether or not Navas was offside (he wasn't) when Iniesta passed the ball is irrelevant.

    Jesus Navas was involved in initial play and as such was offside when Iniesta received the initial pass. That could be viewed as passive offside, but given Iniesta passed the ball to him then Navas gained an advantage by being in an offside position.
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    Well we tried guys.

    Well, trying to quote the laws to sound smart.

    However that phrase has a specific application. That is a player in an offside position getting the ball that rebounds off the post/crossbar or a deflection from the defender.
     
  19. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

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    Ok then, thank you for your input.
     
  20. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    OK. I take it back. You are right.
    Mea culpa.
     
  21. AngloRef

    AngloRef Member

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    I really hope you are not a referee with your lack of knowledge of the offside law!
     
  22. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Hehe. Not professionally, but I do sometimes ref kiddie games for the heck of it, that's why I sometimes come onto the ref forum.
     
  23. AngloRef

    AngloRef Member

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    And do they have offsides in the age groups you do?
    If so I suggest you get someone to teach you the offside law ;-)
     
  24. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

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    Hey! When I went through a training for reffing I remember the offside law being slightly different (as in unclear on passive play), where refs were fully allowed to call for offside irrespective of who the ball was played to (a grey area where you freely choosed their preferred option). I guess I just didn't get up to date that they cleared up hose issues :)

    Just so you know: We don't need papers here to ref kiddie games, so i don't have any.

    Besides I'm not crazy stubborn. I also aim to learn and that's why I come here.

    BTW My local Serbia TV still claims it was offside. Not to mention their banging on the drum on the 2 PK situations. And they hate the Croats :D

    SITUATION 1:
    Ramos on Mandzukic


    1. Dangerous play, studs up, disregard for the opponents health, but Navas did at least partially get the ball - nonetheless Mandzukic seems to pull out last minute to avoid injury
    2. Seems in the area, but freekick also possible

    Can't find a film with the second situation.
     
  25. code1390

    code1390 Member+

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    Fair enough. I didn't recognize your name and figured you we're just an angry Croatian fan.
     
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