Mid-East News II

Discussion in 'International News' started by Ismitje, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Russia and China could certainly push syria to stop the violence and push for enough reforms to force assad to appease his people while retaining power. Iran is also not interested in a power change, but again they wield influence in syria to help stop the slaughter, but as we have heard from them already they not only condone it, they applaud it. Turkey could force the issue if they were determined to see it through. They have the military to effect change, they also share a border with syria so getting into syria for them wouldn't be too hard. They and the arab league could force a change of power, but I think they lack the will to do what it would take to make the change happen. Besides they are prob. just waiting for the US to do the work for them, which I hope we don't do.


  2. minerva

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    experience shows that reforms and liberalization is an extremely slippery slope that usually leads to regime change. why risk it? from a pure realpolitik perspective, Russia has nothing to gain by forcing Assad to liberalize and reform, and everything to lose. under any kind of new regime, Russia will be seen as the supporter of the old guard, and the new leaders will want nothing to do with it. thus Russia would risk losing a very important strategic foothold in the ME. and if it doesn't force reforms on Assad, so what? there is no risk associated with that. Russia knows the US is not in a position to do anything beyond talk, so it has nothing to fear from that corner.
  3. mak9

    mak9 Member

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    a lot of people are saying that it wasn't the army that did the massacre
    and it was terror groups backed by Nato who are trying to instigate a civil war

    it doesn't make sense for syrian amry personel to kill syrian children...their own people/blood

    this may be the main reason why Russia, China, Iran, ...etc. are not getting involved
  4. teammellieIRANfan

    teammellieIRANfan Member+

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    To me it that sounds more likely. Why would Assad and his military go on a random killing spree, murdering innocent women and children when he is under such enormous pressure and Syria being so unstable as it currently is?
    If that is the case then he's a mad man that simply deserve the worst penalty possible.

    It seems more conceivable that NATO /US/Arab league are supporting insurgent groups to cause further instability and force regime change, as they have been advocating for quite some time. Either through a military strike (doubtful that would work) or by trying to cause instability and pit one faction of the people against the other, ie civil war.
    We are already hearing statements from US and european military personnel about a possible military intervention in Syria on the account of human rights abuses, which just raises suspicion if this was a false flag attack.

    BUT Im not saying that is definitely the case. I reserve my judgement until enough evidence has been collected, if it ever will be. Right now there is no conclusive evidence to support that Assad was behind it, so why some reactionary people start talking about how other global powers ala Russia or regional powers (including Iran) should get involved is beyond me.

    My condolences to all the families of the victims. May the perpetrator be penalized (regardless if it's Assad or terrorist groups).


  5. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

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    Syria is a modern, secular state, which by the way, albeit an authoritarian state, is actually more open and democratic than Saudi Arabia, who ironically and shamelessly leads those calling for "democracy in Syria". The independent polls show a majority support for Assad, not because Assad is good guy or that he is popular, but rather because most Syrians are wise enough, not to want to change this:


    With this:
    teammellieIRANfan repped this.
  6. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Any state that is run by a religion will be in some way or another oppresive. Sa calling for a frre democracy is siply hypocritcal at best. As for the situation in syria, assad as with othe dictatorsneeds to go. And while I have no doubts that there are insurgents working in syria, it is not likely that they have access to the heavy artillery that is being used to bomb cities in syria.
  7. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Backed by nato? I would have to see proof of that. As already stated. Russia has a naval base in syria and why would they want to lose their ally? Iran needs syria to help keep their place in the me. And china doesn't give a rip either way but they are making money selling arms to syria.
  8. teammellieIRANfan

    teammellieIRANfan Member+

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    On that flip side of the coin, I would like to see proof of Assad being behind the massacre in Houla. The government has denied it. Obviously it does not mean they are free from suspicion, but until conclusive proof has been provided I remain skeptical.
    If you think Assad needs to go, its not a sentiment that is shared by the majority of the Syrian population (which is what counts) indicated by independent polls
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda

    Personally I wouldnt overestimate Iran's dependence on Syria too much, though granted Syria is undeniably a part of that detterence axis (Hizbollah, Syria and Iran). Hard to speculate on, as we dont know everything.
  9. minerva

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    the opposition is becoming more and more fragmented in Syria. forget civil war. the country is descending into the chaos of anarchy. it's going to be impossible to know who perpetrated this massacre, and what their motivation might have been. there is not good ending to this story. the best that the people can hope for is that Assad quickly crushes the opposition, and re-establishes some kind of rule (even if not the rule of law) and order so that people have a little more predictability in their lives and can go back to some kind of semblance of a normal daily life. other than that, you're looking at a Libya/Somalia/Sudan scenario - which, given the geographic position of Syria, is not good for oil prices.
  10. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisisbre84s0p0-20120529,0,1844171.story

    I do think that assad is a bloodthirsty SOB who needs a bullet in the brain just like so many others of his ilk that came before him. However the idea that there could be another sunni led islamic govt. should not appeal to anyone who has any aspiration for peace in the region. Not that assad and his own history of support for terrorists such as hezbollah, hamas, islamic jihad, and his interference and sanctioned killings of Lebanese Govt. officials is any better.
  11. mak9

    mak9 Member

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    a few weeks ago I posted video of this syrian protestor named mimi

    check out her youtube page, she has better insight of what is going on:




    and this one.... I highly recommend you just listen to the video
    there are a lot of graphic/disturbing images of the massacre (my condolences to the family)
  12. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18274542


    That is some very clear evidence to show it was syrian artillery being fired at houla and where they went and where they fired from. Unless someone wants to show me where the opposition forces in syria have mobile artillery?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18245225


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...f-women-and-children-and-always-gunshots.html
    Use of tanks and artillery is nothing new from assad and his govt. He has been shelling his countrymen for over a year now. If it is a choice between a maniacal dictator or another islamic sunni regime, then everyone there has already lost.
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Member

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    Be he secular or not a dictator is a dictator. His wife may have a wonderful shoe collection and wear fashionable Hermes and Boy Assad himself may speak English -- that does not make him a nice guy.

    As for the massacres, one of the British networks got some people into the town. The Syrian military is in force and shelling the town around the Houla but not necessarily in it. They were shelling it and teh town is pretty much blasted.

    The survivors say that it was not regular military but pro-Assad militia, mostly from neighboring villiages. Houla is mostly Sunni. The surrounding hill towns are mostly Shia and Alawite. So what may be going on here are minorities fearing loss of status when Assad is overthrown (at this point it is not if but when and how I think). It also may be local feuds coming out into the open and using the civil war as a cover.
  14. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

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    So, do we blame the Jews for the earthquake, or only the nk meltdown?
  15. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

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    Saudi Religious Police meet their match:
  16. Iranian Monitor

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    The blatant hypocrisy, and the outrageous and malignant influence of western powers in the events in Syria, is truly disturbing. You have a concerted and coordinated conspiracy, out in the open, by various nations to unseat a government that the Syrian people do not want unseated. You have huge sums of money, and weapons, floating to elements within the Syrian military and others to encourage them to rebel against their state and unleash and armed civil war in that country; you have Saudi Arabia and Qatar working in the front lines of this effort to meddle in the affairs of Syria under the disgustingly hypocritical pretense of caring for human rights and democracy in that country while supporting sunni extremists Wahabis; you have the US coordinating the arming of the groups in Syria by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Turkey helping out as the transit route for such assistance, and then you have the US government have the audacity to call Iran's influence in Syria "nefarious" and somehow suggest that Iranian support of Syria (as opposed to the US support of an effort to unseat the Syrian government even against the will of the Syrian people) is threatening a civil war in Syria!!! We live in a world that is really sick.

    Lest we forget what is serving as a precursor of the increasingly disturbing events in Syria, it would be a good idea to recall a recent news report fro the Washington Post.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...coordination/2012/05/15/gIQAds2TSU_story.html



    And juxtapose and read that report with the hypocritical and malignant remarks today by the White House regarding what and who is threatening to plunge Syria into civil war!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/31/us-syria-crisis-usa-iran-idUSBRE84U15J20120531
  17. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

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    [​IMG]
    Why does this image come to mind?
  18. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    Hey pot, this the kettle how ya doing?
    Dr Jay repped this.
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

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    Assad may not be a nice guy, but he is not necessarily an easy person to paint as the next personification of evil. But, regardless, that is not the real issue in Syria. Assad could be gone, but the real issue in Syria is whether is will be taken from one orbit and put into another at the whims of foreign powers? The latter question is what interests both those outsiders who are tying to unseat Assad as welll as those outsiders who are trying to preserve his rule. The Syrian people, in the meantime, are being treated as mere spectators to their country's political future and many of them are becoming casualties (or "collateral damage") in a proxy war against Iran that is being pursued -- on this front -- by the US/EU in concert with Saudi Arabia, Qatar with Turkey having painted itself foolishly in this camp as well.

    Incidentally, because this is a proxy war between foreigners, its outcome is by no means foreordained.
  20. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/world/meast/syria-unrest/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

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    There is a saying, 'what goes around, comes around."

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304821304577440703810436564.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

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    While the other report is about the complicity of the US, in concert with Israel, in the cyber terrorism that has been unleashed against Iran, this report discusses Iran's success in containing the latest cyber attack against it.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162...ndustry-but-was-defeated-with-data-recovered/

    The report, incidentally, includes a video of a CBS/60 minutes broadcast about the cyber warfare against Iran with US involvement -- and the vulnerability of the US against reciprocal actions.
    teammellieIRANfan repped this.
  23. mak9

    mak9 Member

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    lol.........So what's US and co. going to do now.....Put sanctions on 1 billion + people?

  24. mak9

    mak9 Member

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    I wasn't and no one here was talking about jews.......... so give up playing the race card.
    This isn't 1940s, it's 2012.
  25. mak9

    mak9 Member

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    Firstly, do you actually believe that they have the capability to get satellite image anywhere in the world within a minutes notice of the attack happening? Secondly how do we know these images are not images of the army doing their training?

    This reminds me of the fake babies in incubator story that happened in 1990:



    We can't jump to conclusions right away just cause the media said so. Again why would syrian soldiers just go kill children......were they on drugs? Even in major wars in those regions, children and women were always hands off-- it's human nature.

    This is why I think it's a group backed by NATo that is trying to instigate civil war.......
    and I've mentioned why several times before, ... to distract everyone with a world war as the USD and other western currencies collapse
    and also to give the west an edge in conquering the oil fields of ME and thereby obtaining a near monopoly on the global oil supply -- to continue enslaving developing nations with fraudulent trade agreements

    it's the same thing with why the MB being pushed to become the leaders of egypt--- most egyptians don't want them because of their questionable history...and where is MB getting it's funding from?
    this is not by accident

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