MLS/NASL partnership could do.

Discussion in 'NASL' started by eclipse02, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

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    I'm also hoping that the NASL and MLS work out a deal so that if any team wants to join MLS they would have to go through NASL first to test the market.

    I think that would create at least 6 positive outcomes for US soccer in general.

    1. Help MLS see what Markets would strengthen MLS like Vancouver, Portland, Montreal, and Seattle.

    2. It would help NASL find stronger ownership groups.

    3. It will help MLS and NASL Figure out if Pro/Rel is possible in our Future.

    4. It pressure USL to try to work with NASL rather then against. (Orlando, SSE, and Rochester).

    5. It would Create a Stronger fan bases with the hope of maybe one day going to MLS.

    6. It might Help different possible ownership groups in one city to try to create a partner ship to make it possible for a NASL future MLS venture. (Spurs/Hartman in San Antonio).


  2. aimorris

    aimorris Member

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    The thread title was such a cliffhanger I just had to come in and see the rest.
    athletics68 repped this.
  3. DavidP

    DavidP Member

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    Meh, not so much. Most big-league markets would be DQ'd because of the "wake me up when MLS gets here" mentality. Neither Seattle nor Toronto would have qualified for MLS with your scenario in place (and probably very few others, for that matter).

    Plus, read the sticky (NASL News, last page): there may not be a NASL this year.
  4. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

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    Yea im kinda Depressed by that, If this is the case their is a part of me that hopes maybe an MLS2 would be devised in the ashes of this.


  5. DavidP

    DavidP Member

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    I posted this somewhere else on here; if the NASL is done, I think the USSF should meet with the more solvent NASL owners (if there are any), and others who have "almost-MLS" money, and take a couple of years to form what I call "ASL 4." It would be an independent (i.e., not run by US Soccer), sanctioned league, with 12-16 teams (maybe 8-12 to start). It would be strictly regional (to cut down on travel costs), and have conferences and/or divisions. There would be no inter-conference/divisional play, except for the conference/division champs meeting for the league title. Even if it were just East-Midwest to begin with, it would be a start.

    I had proposed a couple of years ago that D2 make Austin, STL, and Minnesota their westernmost teams for at least five years, and cultivate a relationship with West Coast owners during that time, and then form East/West conferences, making them regional.

    I personally thought this whole set-up was doomed from the get-go. I was totally blind-sided with the announcement that the Silverbacks were in, and wondered, since they were boing propped up by Traffic, if it was just a move to get 8 teams together for sanctioning. I kinda wonder now if I was right.
  6. WhiteStar Warriors

    WhiteStar Warriors BigSoccer Yellow Card

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  7. AllTheRage

    AllTheRage New Member

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    To quote someone in a movie: "If ya could have invented Facebook, ya would have invented Facebook."

    Wait, I thought MLS was evil.

    Honestly - you might as well post "See, Kaczynski doesn't think I'm crazy! So THERE!"
  8. dtid

    dtid Member

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    Wake me up when ANYONE becomes a solid, established league that can get ANY team up to 5k in attendance. Then I'll start watching to see if they can develop into something that might support what you're talking about. Until then, enjoy your pipe dream.

    But fwiw, I would agree that a healthy second division could help develop markets so that MLS isn't worrying about whether it will support soccer. It would be a great barometer in places like Minnesota, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta, etc.

    As for pro-rel - until you have over 32 teams that have at least 20k a game attendance, you're back on the crack pipe.

    As for restricting how teams get into MLS, that is just nuts. Oh, and probably against anti-trust laws.
  9. dtid

    dtid Member

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    By the way, WSW...

    Loved how you answered this in the other thread.

    I wrote:

    Your response was:

    Now, how does that at ALL answer my question? I have never defended the USL or the reasons why the NASL owners pulled out.

    I'm just questioning the NASL's ability to anything positive. And by positive, I mean anything that would develop a relatively healthy second division made up of teams that have 4-6k attendance at a minimum.
  10. WhiteStar Warriors

    WhiteStar Warriors BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    Ok just wait til the season starts, it's kind of hypocritical when you as a FC Dallas fan had what 6,000 at one game in MLS:eek:
  11. dtid

    dtid Member

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    That is six times what pretty much any of the current NASL teams (not destined for MLS in 2013) has at a game, so frankly I don't give a crap what you think about our attendance.

    I also don't give a crap what you think because you can't seem to POSITIVELY SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS WITH ***ANY*** FACTS WHATSOEVER.

    And yes, I'm going to keep pointing that out. Count on it.
  12. WhiteStar Warriors

    WhiteStar Warriors BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    what facts dude? the season hasn't started yet? worry about FC dallas and stop trolling NASL forums, looks like the FCD forums are boring as hell.


    BTW Tampa home opener was 8,000+ more than FC Dallas 6,000 game so put that in your pipe and smoke it buddy.

    According to this:

    http://www.dailysoccerfix.com/2010/3/29/1395371/notes-on-mls-attendance-fcd-fans
  13. dtid

    dtid Member

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    Either you think I'm stupid or you're trying to fleece anyone reading.

    Either way, all I'm doing is bringing you back to reality. That isn't trolling, that is a discussion. The fact that you've consistently overstretched the facts and been inflammatory in your comments - especially about MLS and the USL - more than justifies any attitude you're getting from me.

    So let's take this most recent post.

    Unfortunately for you, while Tampa Bay outdrew FC Dallas for a game, which is embarrassing to FC Dallas, the overall story is a little different.

    Let's pull the actual numbers, and look at a few things. And just for s&g, let's use the same information source to keep the baseline even.

    Average

    Tampa Bay - 3,882
    Dallas - 10,815

    Funny - that article also lists Tampa Bay as having a low of 1,698. So if we were to compare apples to apples, 6k is still bigger than 1.6k.

    And Tampa Bay's HIGH was 8,082. What was Dallas'? Well, it wouldn't be fair to look at the 19,435 Dallas drew for their game against Inter Milan because Tampa Bay never played anyone with that kind of star power. Let's go with either the game v. Kansas City (July 3, 15,993) or the game v. New York (September 16, 15,105).

    Either way, we're talking about two games that are just about double Tampa Bay's high.

    In fact, Dallas' median game (10k) was your beloved 6k more than Tampa Bay's median game (under 4k).

    Now, I'm not sitting here saying Dallas had great attendance last year. But don't try to argue that one kick-off, promo driven game makes Tampa Bay anything but a one-game blip.

    Oh, and if you don't want MLS people commenting on the NASL, do two things. One, don't go into the MLS boards asking our opinion, and don't go bashing MLS in such an unwarranted fashion.

    And your over the top bashing of the USL and refusal to address the NASL's shortfalls don't help matters, but rather invite educated commentary to correct your misstatements.
  14. AllTheRage

    AllTheRage New Member

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    Wait, do we think a league can't decide who its member teams will be? Do we think MLS, LLC can't decide on who to allow into its LLC? Do we honestly think this is illegal?
  15. Sam U El

    Sam U El Member

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    Nothing like dragging up an old thread from the depths but this one may have some merit... While the smoke is far from cleared regarding MLS/NASL/USL Pro relationship there are signs that MLS might be embracing NASL. News articles regarding NASL make it to the MLS website from time to time but those mostly highlight MLS players that are loaned out to lower divisions. They also like to highlight ex-MLS players/execs that are invloved in the lower leagues from a management or coaching stand-point... Oddly enough todays thread regarding Jacksonville has been the first one I've seen that really had nothing to do with MLS. Now that could be because with the off-season and play-offs there is less MLS news to write about or fill space with... Or is it a thawing reagrding NASL. Is it possible that a successful 2nd Division is actually a good thing for MLS to embrace and in some cases hitch it's wagon to? Eclipse mentioned 6 positive outcomes regarding NASL/MLS... Now at the end of the 2013 season can we see any of these positives coming to fruition or are the Divisions further apart than before?

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...013-nasl-soccer-bowl-behind-goal-marcos-senna

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/n...eam-holding-contest-asking-fans-help-come-new
  16. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I am sure MLS has good reasons to keep in contact with NASL. Although I think it's far more to the NASL's best interests than MLS. What does MLS get out of a NASL relationship?

    Eclipse's #1 reason is the only valid one. Most of the others are purely to NASL's benefit. I'll argue that #1 is detrimental to NASL.
  17. Sam U El

    Sam U El Member

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    Agreed... #1 doesn't help NASL and the others don't benefit MLS...

    #4 At this point is dead in the water.. USL Pro and NASL are in direct competition at this point. The OKC Battle highlights that protracted fight.

    #6 Developing Ownership groups that want to jump to MLS doesn't help NASL unless Pro/Reg is worked out (doubt it) or NASL wants to be USL Pro typer partner (doubt it)

    Oh and the story involving Jacsonville does mention a former MLS player (I missed it).... So they still only highlight pieces from other leagues that show-off MLS alumni or benefit MLS in some way.

    "They're getting a new NASL team in 2015, headed up by former MLS goalkeeper DarĂ­o Sala, and the club is trying to come up with a new name."
  18. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

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    Agreed, NASL doesn't want MLS poaching their most successful teams, but that's pretty much the main reason I can see MLS being interested in the league. That certainly isn't a partnership.

    The main thing MLS can get from partnering with a lower division is help with player development...but MLS is already partnering with USL to replace the reserve league. Meanwhile NASL is directly competing with MLS for markets - currently New York and probably South Florida and Atlanta in the future. So their relationships are inherently going to be more adversarial than cooperative.

    *Years* down the line, if and when league membership in MLS, NASL and USL Pro stabilizes, I could see a role for more interleague cooperation. Perhaps NASL could become a good place to loan MLS players that are excelling on USL Pro reserve teams but still not ready for MLS action. The AAA to USL Pro's AA, if you will.
    TheJoeGreene repped this.
  19. MUTINYFAN

    MUTINYFAN Member

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    I don't understand why the USSF doesn't do anything about this lack of cooperation in the lower leagues. I know the NASL broke off from the USL after the sale to NuRock Holdings but i do not understand the lack of cooperation at least in the pyramid structure for player development. It makes no sense that they put teams in the same market to compete with each other. Then again most major European or South American cities have at least two-three professional soccer clubs if not ten across several divisions. Sometimes there are two in the same division.
  20. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

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    The NASL-USL Pro certainly seems counterproductive to me - especially with the unnecessary competition over markets (like Tampa and Oklahoma City). But I'm not sure what USSF is supposed to do about it. Picking sides and only sanctioning one club or another seems a drastic, anticompetitive step that might invite antitrust action.
  21. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

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    What would you have them do, exactly?

    And you understand that non-cooperation has been SOP for American Soccer going back a century, right?
  22. MUTINYFAN

    MUTINYFAN Member

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    I don't know what they should do nor am i suggesting anything, I just wish they would cooperate. That's all. And non-cooperation is worldwide that is why you have ten teams in Buenos Aires or in London, when probably two to three would be best for marketing exclusivity reasons.
  23. MLSinSTL

    MLSinSTL Member

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    Dont' know if this is the right thread, but I'm posting here anyways. :p

    IMO, NASL missed the boat on working with MLS. In the short term, it appears that USL Pro is having some success adding franchises due to their MLS partnership. I think it's too early to call it a complete success because teams like Sacramento Republic FC, OKC Energy, Colorado Springs, Tulsa, have yet to play a game or demonstrate they can actually run a team effectively. Sacramento seems to have their act together so far. OKC just got a boost in their efforts by affiliating with SKC. Even poorly run clubs like the Dayton Dutch Lions now have an affiliation with MLS via the Crew.

    Long term, well I don't have a crystal ball. One could extrapolate that the early success would continue and the USL Pro will keep adding teams that could have potentially gone with the NASL. Of course, I know these teams need an owner worth $2o million to join the NASL. Maybe none of these ownership groups meet that criteria.

    In the short term, it appears the NASL should have affiliated with MLS.
  24. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the key part are the ownership group's worth. Except for AC St Louis, PR and Baltimore (which happened year 1), NASL seems far more stable than USL, with its Phoenix, VSI Tampa, Antigua etc. The MLS affiliation could attract more stable ownership, but that hasn't been the case until now.
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead America Uber Alles

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    I wish MLS and the NCAA would coordinate on scheduling their championships.

    But I'm not holding my breath.

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