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News: MLS Trademarks Two Possible New York Team Names: "Empire FC" and "City FC"

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Fiosfan, Sep 20, 2012.

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  1. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Dallas, Dallas or Frisco, Dallas?

    RB may be a New York team.

    But some important people also seem pretty intent on having an "even more New York" team join the league.
     
    sussexcentralsoccer repped this.


  2. sussexcentralsoccer

    sussexcentralsoccer Member

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    Sure, it can be tough to tell where one ends and the other begins. And they love coming here for the tax-free-ness.

    I understand that MLS and potential I/Os what to capitalize on another part of the huge NYC market, but Harrison is certainly part of the NYC market.
     
  3. sussexcentralsoccer

    sussexcentralsoccer Member

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    That is a good way to put it.
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Yes, "Harrison is certainly part of the NYC market" but it doesn't surprise me that there are some/many people in many parts of "the NYC market" who don't consider Harrison to be part of NYC (nor do they consider/accept a team that has always and only primarily played in NJ to be a "NYC team").
     


  5. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

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    Fixed, to reflect how those people refer to it. I would think that this is a better indicator of their intent than projecting your own feelings on them, as in the original.
     
  6. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Both phrasings are accurate (in their own ways), imo.

    Everyone here is projecting and/or offering what they themselves would think.
     
  7. zensum

    zensum Member

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    Ok, i'll take a shot...

    Tradition - the poster may not be a New Yorker and/or old enough to be aware of the history but as stated before there's a tradition of having our city soccer team play in New Jersey. The greatest run for domestic soccer in this country took place in this town with our team playing in New Jersey. It's in the city's DNA.

    Attendance - the latest understanding is that 40% of the fans going to games at the Arena come from the city.

    TV - I'm guessing that the due to volume if nothing else the majority of fans watching games on TV come from the city. Earlier in the season Garber admitted that our TV ratings are actually better than the Galaxy's to give some perspective. Our local TV carrier is MSG network the city based home of the Knicks/Rangers/Liberty/ formally home of the Yankees.

    Player Appearances - The club does extensive promotional and charitable player appearances in the city. Mostly Manhattan but also Queens and Brooklyn. At the game tonight it was announced that Marquez and Cooper will be signing at Queens Center soon. The club works with the youth soccer program in Harlem and really with youth soccer throughout the metro area including the city.

    Players about town - Henry and Marquez both live in Manhattan and are out and about. Henry has several times made the papers most recently at Fashion Week. Marquez was grand marshall of the Mexican parade in the city. Last season Henry was a regular and regularly reported at Knicks games. Gunnar Solli DJs in the city on weekends in fact I'm pretty sure he's starting his gig in lower Manhattan as I post.

    Marketing - One of the biggest falsehoods put out there by the NY2 crowd and the Red Bull haters is that the club doesn't market in the city. In fact everything from billboards in Manhattan to inserts in the Sunday Daily News to street team appearances and radio spots (in addition to the regular player appearances) have been attempted. The club claimed a couple of years ago that it spent more on marketing than any other MLS club but it just didn't move the needle. Admittedly the costs in the city mean you get less output per dollar than in other markets.

    NYPD/NYFD soccer - Red Bull teams with the rank and file officers' soccer teams. Tonight it was announced that the annual game between the services will be played at the Arena as it always is. A couple of years ago the team accompanied/paid (I think) for a trip to Latin America. I believe it was Fire that had assisted on earthquake relief and then the soccer guys returned to the area for some sort of goodwill trip.

    By the way the Arena was rocking tonight, nice crowd nice performance by Henry/Cooper/team. Fans in the upper deck were foot-stomping the aluminum flooring on every Red Bull corner kick. At the end of the game Henry was egging the fans on before he took the kicks.
     
    Jasonma repped this.
  8. Red Card

    Red Card Member

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    About the crowd tonight- First, I noticed it was much larger than usual. Quite a wait to get out caused me to miss the NJT train to NYC and the next train was 50 minutes later. Second, I noticed that parking spaces have opened up and now cars are parked all over the surrounding area. I think as the parking becomes easier, more and more folks living in NJ will attend.
     
  9. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

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    Player appearances and charity events...who can argue with such strong connections. (they do a lot fo similar stuff in NJ too) I don't deny that Red Bull wants to be seen as a NYC team, they just simply are not one. They are a New Jersey team, plain and simple. Red Bull is just trying to usurp a New York image they do not actually have.

    MSG played nets and devils games too..does that make them NY teams too? Of course not. Just be happy supporting your NJ soccer team and stop trying to be something you are not. Everyone will be happier that way.
     
  10. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

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    Someone call Cory Booker and let him know he is part of New York City.
     
  11. zensum

    zensum Member

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    That's the whole idea we're a regional team, soccer has always been that way in New York. Even in the Generals/pre-Pele Cosmos days the very, very few fans came from all over the metro region.

    This is one of the reasons (only one) why F.cosmos with their (former?) hipster/city posturing/marketing was (is?) so off base. It might be the best business plan for a new team in the market but had (has?) very little to do with our former team.

    This concept of "connection" is so subjective, it's yet another of the devices the NY2/Red Bull haters use to misrepresent our team in the city and the metro area (thankfully only on the internet).

    Connected???

    You can count on one hand the number of MLS teams that have forced their way into the collective consciousness of their home area. RBNY is in the broad middle of MLS along with many teams that never get these self inflicted charges levied against them.

    As we search for reasons why our team has only an MLS level of connection with the whole market NY/NJ/Conn/small part of Penn let not discount the role of the "true believer" section of the fan base (not the "Metro" crowd , I respect trying to keep part of our tradition alive, I mean the bomb throwers only interested in ripping our team down).

    These guys have been a double edged sword no doubt (the strongest argument for F.cosmos in my estimation).

    PS - I'm sure you're liking that Henry captain's armband...
     
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  12. Ed NYC Firm

    Ed NYC Firm Member

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    For me . It's not that they play in NJ ( I'm a Devils fan and also went to Nets games in Newark). I have no problem that they use the name NY ( just as the Jets and Giants do). It's the name Red Bull that bothers me, and the fact they erased what had become my team in order to promote their soft drink.
     
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  13. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

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    I'll summarize this thread for everyone.

    I'm a douchy moron who will never really support any MLS team (even if they put the stadium on my front door) unless someone invents time travel and brings back Pele, Shep, Chinaglia and the boys.

    But I can't come out and say that, so I need to pretend that there is no such thing as the New York Metropolitan area. Furthermore, I need to pretend that it is a major pain in the ass to get to Harrison, while hoping that nobody is smart enough to realize that getting to Harrison is no easier or more difficult to get to than Queens. It just depends on what part of the city I live in.

    Now I need to get back to my DVR. It's filled with 300 hours of Manchester United games that I need to catch up on.
     
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  14. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Coming back to this, as I do agree.

    But I'd also think it would be worth pointing out that if MLS HQ was content and pleased with the Harrison/RBA location as a sufficient level of "New York-ness" then MLS likely would have already launched that "second New York" team to share that same venue.

    It is a great venue. And if MLS wanted a second team in the broad NY market, then they could have launched Team20 to be a co-tenant at RBA (if RB was willing to agree to that as AEG was willing to agree to CUSA's launch and shared location).

    But there is something to be said for MLS HQ's desire (and patience to wait) to have NY2 play in NYC. There's insight there as to how the Harrison location is "lacking" (or not perfect on its own or not fully representing the NY/NJ market or more specifically the NYC market) and not meeting MLS's needs to be "in" NYC (and/or fully reach that big market to their liking as a business).
     
  15. zensum

    zensum Member

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    The same cast of characters thought Chivas USA was a key to getting Mexican American fans interested in MLS. While I still feel that team can be successful the gambit now seems ill considered doesn't it.
     
  16. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Sure, but the league can learn and do a lot in about a decade. (And there's been a decent amount of turnover/additions to the cast of characters that is driving MLS these days relative to who was in place when Chivas USA joined.)

    And a "gambit" to perhaps have two "NY" teams play at RBA would have been ill-considered as well.

    MLS's push to get NY2 into NYC (and not just as a co-tenant out in Harrison) makes a lot of sense, in that light.
     
  17. zensum

    zensum Member

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    Yes, two teams in the Arena makes no sense at all and the second team as far east as possible makes sense in the market. I had a dying computer and couldn't post to BigSoccer since May so I've missed commenting on recent significant developments. At a certain point I'll repost comments I made on MetroFanatic but to restate my position on this initiative...

    Many Red Bull fans (myself included) can live with a second team in market just not now and not named after our old team. Our current team needs more time to solidify in the new stadium and thousands of old Cosmos fans are now logically Red Bull/Metro fans. The fanbase for soccer here and particularly MLS soccer is not that big (understand the argument of growing the pie).

    What really dismays me however is the way the league has undercut our attempts to build the fan base by heralding the imminent arrival of a more attractive option. The saddest part of all this is that the new team is likely a 2015/16 development if it happens at all. That timing seems fair if it's not called Cosmos and if Garbler and his colleagues had not been trumpeting this thing for the last five years.

    Now that there's something substantial Garber finally shuts up after the damage is done.
     
  18. canammj

    canammj Member

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    If MLS wants some more "worldly" attention, the 2nd NY needs to be the Cosmos. Yes, they are playing in the NASL right now , but will be playing on Long Island not too far from MLS proposed stadium. They could come up to MLS from NASL like SEA< PDX<VAN did once the stadium is build. Even playing now helps build a fan base and that would/should jump when they jump leagues. Yes, you would have issues with naming rights and such, but I hope that could be worked out.
    =
    I think the Cosmos need the MLS more than MLS needs the Cosmos right now.
    If MLS builds the SSS near Shea, I simply can't see the Cosmos going out and building their own. And if they did, do we all think we have room for 3 soccer teams in the metro NY, with 2 of the 3 on Long Island? Probably not. I just can't see the Cosmos playing in the second division. It will be very interesting next year as they start to build the team and the players they pick up.
    =
    Otherwise, I will throw out my random names like everyone else for a NY2 team name=

    Five Boroughs FC or SC
    NYC United
    NYC - let a nickname morph from fans and media call the team
    Skyline FC
     
  19. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    The league loves all its children/franchises, but certainly the focus will be on "the new" for a few years, and the older siblings may not like that and/or may feel unloved.

    And a Queens-located team would be "more attractive" (and convienient) for folks east of Manhattan, perhaps.

    And also would not the long-term reality of a team in Queens (no matter what they are called or branded as) help in some ways to "build the fan base" out in Harrison, given the immediate and local rival, and the supposed raised profile of MLS with a 20th team operating in NYC?

    What may indeed in part be undercutting the RB's effort to build their own fan base is the (poor) branding of their own team in Harrison. And that does in some ways point to the importance of MLS (and the new owner specifically) "getting it right" with the branding/presentation of Team20.
     
  20. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

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    Not if there wasn't an ownership group that was willing to do that, they wouldn't. MLS doesn't launch teams, they accept money from other people to launch them, and there are lots of good reasons why a potential owner would not want to do that other than Harrison isn't "NYC enough." It is also entirely plausible to think that, if Chivas came around today, the deal that brought them into existence would not be accepted by MLS.

    Again, there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that MLS thinks any such thing. None. There is not a single shred of evidence that MLS would hesitate for a second to accept a second team playing in RBA.

    It is much more likely that any potential investor is being sold on the idea that control of their stadium's revenue stream is the key to success, especially with the possibly inflated franchise fee that has been speculated. It is also difficult to believe that finding an investor to field a team that plays in a stadium owned by and named for its natural rival (or anyone else), regardless of its location, would be easy.
     
  21. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

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    Agree with this.

    And the additional point that any new I/O for Team20 would immediately "be MLS."

    And the decisions and activity that MLS has taken in NY reflect what a new owner (and therefore part of the league) would and does want.

    A second team in RBA would not work (best) for the business of MLS, and that is why that has not happened and is not going to happen now/soon/ever. There are likely a slew of reasons as to why operationally it is the case that Harrison is only home to one team, but certainly "location" (within the big market) has to be among those reasons. And a "different location" or a "better location" or a "more NYC-ish/actual-NYC location" is certainly being targeted by the league for Team20.
     
  22. zensum

    zensum Member

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    1) You did well to qualify this conventional mis-wisdom with "perhaps". It differs from neighborhood to neighborhood.
    2) The branding is not a significant issue despite what you may read on these boards.
     
  23. Zoti

    Zoti Member

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    Same here. I finally gave up for good on NYRB. This is the first time since '96 that I haven't attended an ML game.

    Why not? Melbourne Victory and Melbourne heart share a stadium and I highly doubt Melbourne is a bigger soccer city than NYC.
     
  24. Ed NYC Firm

    Ed NYC Firm Member

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    Yeah that's exactly what I said when I went to 80%-90% of the Metros home games in the god awful Giants Stadium from 96-01.

    That's exactly what I said when I already stated I've gone to many games in Newark for the Devils and Nets ( when MSG and even the Nassau Col are both far easier for me to get to ).

    BTW For me ( as I live in Queens ) the proposed stadium will be about 30 minutes from my house to my seat in the stadium ( going by my current trip to Citifield to watch Met games). So yes it will be far easier to get to than a 2+ hour journey I've had from RBA when I went a few years ago for a Friendly against Spurs.

    I'm clearly such a Euro Snob that I never bought season tickets to FCNY when they played in USL last season.. Oh wait I did.
     
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  25. VegasNYC

    VegasNYC Member

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    Melbourne Victory do play some games at Etihad Stadium though. You also need to remember though that AAMI stadium in Melbourne is owned by the State Government and is used for the Melbourne Rugby and Rugby League games as well. There would be no way Victory or Heart could afford to build their own stadium
     
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