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News: Mother of Exiles

Discussion in 'Women's Rivalry Forum' started by jocasta, Aug 12, 2011.

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  1. jocasta

    jocasta Member

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    Keep, ancient Eurotrash, your storied pomp!
    Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses of Real News Items about the world of women's football yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of Eurotrash's teeming shore of linguistic speculations, gender-theory rants, and horse cakes.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost Real News Items to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
    cf. original, in case a refresher is needed

    In other words, here's a thread for news and near-news of leagues and national teams that not are discussed down here quite often enough to merit their own threads; this group is subject of course to change. It's easier to list who this list does not include; as of right now, this thread should not include stuff about the national teams of Sweden and Germany, or the highest leagues of Sweden, Germany, and England, each of which has its own thread in this forum.

    We'll see how this goes. May the Force be with us, and may the Great Cladist forgive the implied approval of paraphyletic groupings.
     


  2. jocasta

    jocasta Member

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    So what sort of thing does go here? Maybe it's best to give examples of things from Eurotrash.

    News about the French league:


    A couple of players move to Norway:

     
  3. welshfan

    welshfan Member

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    Ok, let's get this thread started then!

    More news about the French League (also known as D1):

    Olympique Lyonnais:

    - Makan Traoré (18) joined the team. She's described as defensive mid, so apparently, she arrived from Le Mans to re *cough* (hard time to type it) to replace Stensland, who transferred to her former club in Göteborg, as you guys know.

    - A 17 year old and unknown American is currently in camp with the team. OL will eventually decide whether she's good enough to make the team or not.

    OL are still looking for defensive players.
     
  4. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    keep your internet birthday bashes too!
     


  5. Smulan

    Smulan Member

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    No need to be bitter, just cause nobody knows *your* birthday. (Though if you *were* bitter, I'm led to believe that'd go in Eurotrash and not here.)

    :p
     
  6. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    That's a really interesting tidbit. It is highly unusual for American teens (of the female variety) to look to skip the college rout if they're skilled athletes. Even the semi-marginal students go the jr. college route w/ hopes of transferring to a 4 yr college.

    Unless this person has significant connections in France, maybe?
     
  7. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member

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    Or maybe just really don't like to study :)
     
  8. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    True but the whole system here is set up to funnel students with athletic gifts into some sort of college and that's doubly so for high school girls. A marginal student with the wherewithal to set up a trial in France would/should have the resources (family/coach/etc) to get into a jr. college like Phoenix College (not to be confused w/ the online Phoenix Univ.). Especially if they are close to good enough to make OL's squad then someone here would pay for them to attend school & play for them. It is a unique route for an American teen to take. So unique that I have to think there's something else going on--like significant family ties to France.
     
  9. Bonnie Lass

    Bonnie Lass Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless maybe she just doesn't buy into the whole NCAA thing. Which actually makes sense these days. I mean, if you want to go to college and get a degree, and want to play soccer on the side, then NCAA is for you. But if you want to focus on your playing career, going abroad seems like a damn good idea.
     
  10. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    I don't disagree -- all I'm saying is that said stance is pretty unique for a typical American teenage girl.

    And I was looking for what might set her apart in terms of A) deciding to skip NCAA or even NAIA B) knowing about OL at all and C) having the ability/connections to set up a trial. In general -- especially if college isn't for her -- I think this has the potential to be a really neat story.

    Heck, only recently have more than a handful of American post-collegiate women's soccer players headed to Europe to play--and still fewer than some (including me) think ought to try and make a team.
     
  11. welshfan

    welshfan Member

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  12. Flea2009

    Flea2009 Member

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  13. welshfan

    welshfan Member

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    Thanks for that, I had no idea.

    Anyway, being 17, flying to France to play for Lyon and turning down UNC: bad ass:cool:
     
  14. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    Thanks for the info and player's name. Seems like it was just a training stint . While she is badass, she has not turned her back on UNC. She'll wear Carolina Blue next season :p
     
  15. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member

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    With that name I think playing in Sweden could be a bad experience. :p

    Then again there are americans that goes trough their whole life with the name Hooker so perhaps it would work out fine.

    Swedish lesson: the swedish word 'horan' is a direct tranlsation of the english/american 'the whore'
     
  16. shlj

    shlj Member+

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    I wonder because if she is offered a contract by Lyon. I mean going Univrsity getting a degree is excellent but the football training conditions at OL are really good. But she would need to learn French quickly at leats the basic footie stuff.
     
  17. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    How many games would she get to play, though, if she signed w/ OL. Aren't there sufficient players in front of her that she wouldn't see the field that much at 17-18? And how willing/happy would OL be to let her go for US U20 camps/qualification for 2012?

    Granted, I'm not entirely neutral in this particular situation given my UNC ties...

    But that doesn't change the fact that for young USA girls, starting their post-high school career overseas is very uncharted territory. Horan wants to be on the U20 team but most important to her is making the full USWNT. If she feels like she'd be forgotten about in the US for a couple of years if she went to OL, I don't think she would go. Even if they offered her a contract but she wouldn't be starting a majority of games.

    What I could see as more likely to happen would be she & OL keep in touch, as it were, and if she progressed she'd sign with them in 3 yrs or (depending on how she liked college) after her UNC eligibility was up. The Krieger path, if you will.
     
  18. Bonnie Lass

    Bonnie Lass Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Which is exactly why there will never be an American Marta. How old was Marta when she first started playing abroad professionally?

    The sooner young players stop sucking at NCAA's tit and get on with their playing careers, the better off U.S. soccer will be.
     
  19. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    While true, I just don't see academically eligible players going abroad yet. Maybe in another 5 yrs. But beyond improving playing ability, there was a bigger economic incentive for Marta to go than there is for Horan. Hell, not enough (imo) post-collegiate American players go abroad to play professionally. That is s-l-o-w-l-y starting to change (and there have always been a handful that went but not more than a handful).

    You know soccer is not seen here as something to do to earn enough of a living to make up for not going to college in a situation where player-students are given more assistance to navigate the system to earn a degree and get a job. Especially for women--it is only slowly becoming the case for the elite boys players to skip college. I'm not saying I'm totally in agreement w/ this view/reality. It is just the way it is. The entire youth club system (boys & girls) has been designed with the end product purpose to be a ticket to NCAA.

    That's another reason I wondered about family connections in France. I think the first elite USA female youth player to eschew NCAA ball will be one w/ family in the place the player goes to for pro ball. The parents will know (or be closely related to people that know) both the sporting and educational system in that country.

    But who knows. Maybe Horan does decide to go once she's 18. The rule is the same for women, right? Guys can't sign a contract outside their home country until age 18.
     
  20. Bonnie Lass

    Bonnie Lass Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Tee hee. I knew you'd take the bait. :D

    What was Abby Wambach's major at UF? Leisure management. Know what the majority of 99 players from UNC majored in? Communications.

    While it may make sense for the iffy/borderline players to go and major in something serious so they have a career to fall back on, it seems as if the very top players (the ones who are in it for the long haul) usually major in something fluffy. So, instead of majoring in leisure management, you'd think they'd just skip NCAA completely and work on their playing careers.

    And yeah, some would be skipping out on the oh-so-sacred scholarship, but how many of the top 10 NCAA women's soccer schools are public? If they were turning down money to attend Harvard or Yale or Duke, sure, go for it. But schools like UNC, UF, FSU, UGA? Meh. Suck it up and get some grants and financial aid, take out a loan or two and go back once you're done playing.
     
  21. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    As I said, I don't completely agree w/ the "NCAA or bust" approach. I think we're in agreement more than we disagree here. But I'm a realist. It has taken 15yrs of MLS and growth of knowledge of pro soccer in general for that "NCAA first" view to even marginally change on the boys/mens side in the USA -- and there's a sh!t ton more money available to young male prospects.

    13 (14 if you count Buddle's juco yr) of the USMNT 2010 WC roster played some college ball. Of the rest, only Beasley & Bradley (and Spector but his grandparents are German) weren't the children of immigrants (who, I'll dangerously generalize, have a different view of sport as a path for access to education than you find prevalent in US club soccer). But Bradley/Donovan/Beasley & their families knew more about professional options when they were 16-18. And all of them came up after Project 40/Generation adidas/push for options for elite players to skip college and bcm pros.

    And it will take another 10 yrs for professional women's soccer to be seen by parents here as a legit skip school option. Now (15yrs of WNBA influence) is women's basketball being seen as a legit career option for talented girls (and most bballers make more money in Europe). And even with that players here go to college or juco first and then pro. How many elite American women's basketball players do you know that skip college ball?

    Yes, at some point (perhaps sooner than the 5+ yrs I guessed earlier), young American teen girls will skip college and go straight into a professional soccer career. And good for them. But realistically, we both know there going to have to be a lot of change in thinking/approach by parents & club coaches for that to be anything more than a unique exception.

    eta: Donovan was the kid of a Canadian immigrant. So I changed that sentence. But really, I'm not sure how much that "counts" -- Canada is just like the USA but nicer, right ;) :p
     
  22. shlj

    shlj Member+

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    With regards to education, I have friends who studied in Lyon and I am sure she would be bale to find a BA or a master degree to do without any problem. They have one of the best engeneer school and one of the best business school ove there.

    Also I would think, if she gets offered a contract it would mean she is good enough to play in what is an excellent football team, and I would think she would improve faster in a pro environment. I had excellent feedback on UNC, as one English player played there recently and I am friendly with her mum ;), and results speak for themselves but I certainly think it would be a big opportunity.
    Also being able to live abroad at such a young age, would make her mature quickly as well which will only bring benefits.
     
  23. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member

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    Is that an american rule? since Marta started playing abroad (under contract) at age 17 and Ramona Bachman at 16. And I know some Swedish male players leave for more southern part of Europe at the same tender age. So there aren't any such FIFA rule.
    IIRC until 18 their parents(ore guardian) also have to sign for the contract to have any value.
     
  24. shlj

    shlj Member+

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    There is indeed a rule about a minor player in the "regulations on the transfer and status of players VI 19. protection of minors

    1. International transfers of players are only permitted if the player is over the age of 18.

    2. The following three exceptions to this rule apply:

    a) The player’s parents move to the country in which the new club is
    located for reasons not linked to football.

    b) The transfer takes place within the territory of the European Union
    (EU) or European Economic Area (EEA) and the player is aged between
    16 and 18. In this case, the new club must fulfi l the following minimum
    obligations:
    i. It shall provide the player with an adequate football education and/
    or training in line with the highest national standards.
    ii. It shall guarantee the player an academic and/or school and/or
    vocational education and/or training, in addition to his football
    education and/or training, which will allow the player to pursue
    a career other than football should he cease playing professional
    football.
    iii. It shall make all necessary arrangements to ensure that
    the player is looked after in the best possible way (optimum
    living standards with a host family or in club accommodation,
    appointment of a mentor at the club, etc.).
    iv. It shall, on registration of such a player, provide the
    relevant association with proof that it is complying with the
    aforementioned obligations;

    c) The player lives no further than 50km from a national border and the
    club with which the player wishes to be registered in the neighbouring
    association is also within 50km of that border. The maximum distance
    between the player’s domicile and the club’s headquarters shall be 100km.
    In such cases, the player must continue to live at home and the two
    associations concerned must give their explicit consent.
     
  25. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    And let me end your two pages of trivia about one American no-name kid !

    Sorry, i am a bad boy......

    I am posting this highlight Dailymotion - PSG-Montpellier : 1-0 Les Parisiennes en Champions League! - une vidéo Sports et Extrême that is several months old. It is from the French league, the last game of the season, between Paris PSG and Montpellier MHSC. The plot was that PSG had to win, and MHSC had only to tie, to finish 2nd in the league and earn the last place in the CL this year.

    Well it is enterntaining and you can recognize a few World Cup stars. But it turns controversial after 5:50 minutes on the video counter, when in the last minute of the game, tied 0-0, PSG is awarded a PK. Please have a look, and see if you can see why.
     
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