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No Camp Cupcake 2013?!

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by delarge101, Oct 18, 2012.

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  1. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Yeah, Conor O' Brien should be a shoe-in for this squad over Rico. He can play the 6 and 8 (and is originally a winger...) and would be fine in a 2 CM system with Kitchen, Dax, Beckerman or maybe Torres. To be honest, Clark is never going to contribute again for a senior squad, so what's the point of including him? Just looking at this squad, he is the outlier. Everyone else at least has a chance to break in as the 23rd man if they distinguish themselves. It just feels like Clark is beyond that point IMO.

    Jurgen has said as much. This camp is about finding World Cup players, not rewarding veteran MLS'ers for a good season.

    He also mentioned that Bedoya would be called in, but he is likely moving from Scandinavia in January...not sure where, but he seemed like it was a feit accompli.

    Not to be Scandinavia-centric. But Steve Clark over Tally Hall.
     


  2. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

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    One point -- JK has mentioned he needs Gold Cup players for this summer in addition to WCQ roster additions. Now Rico may not be in the plans, but we definitely need more than 23 players in 2013.
     
  3. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

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    I agree that I'd take O'Brien over Rico, but he might not be available. O'Brien's contract is up this winter, and there are clubs in various countries, like the Netherlands, that are interested in him. Unless he stays in Denmark, he likely won't be at a place where there's a winter break long enough for him to participate.
     
  4. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    Which is actually Austrian...
     


  5. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

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    Screw all this small roster stuff... I say have a 30 man camp like normal, mix some vets with some youngsters, and have two games where you mix the rosters up to evaluate talent. From there, remember the faces that you think can contribute and either integrate them into the WCQ rosters or wait for the Gold Cup. Moreover, it helps these guys get into preseason mode.

    (4) Goalkeepers:
    Steve Clark, Bill Hamid, Sean Johnson, Nick Rimando
    Alternates: Ryan Meara, Tally Hall, Dan Kennedy, Matt Pickens, Andy Gruenbaum

    (4) Fullbacks:
    Chance Myers, Steve Beitashour, Justin Morrow, Seth Sinovic
    Alternates: Sheannon Williams, Heath Pearce, Zach Loyd, Kevin Alston, Connor Lade, Corey Ashe
    Omit: Michael Parkhurst (rest)

    (5) Defenders:
    Matt Besler, Omar Gonzalez, Matthew Hedges, Austin Berry, Amobi Okugo
    Alternates: Chad Marshall, AJ Soares
    Omit: George John (moving), Clarence Goodson (old), Jay DeMerit (old), Nat Borchers (old)

    (9) Midfielders:
    Conor O' Brien, Mikkel Diskerud, Graham Zusi, Dax McCarty, Perry Kitchen, Luis Silva, Brad Evans, Luis Gil, Eddie Gaven
    Alternates: Sam Cronin, Jeff Larentowicz, Ricardo Clark, Benny Feilhaber
    Omit: Landon Donovan (rest), Kyle Beckerman (old), Brad Davis (old), Alejandro Bedoya
    Wildcard: Osvaldo Alonso (for Clark)

    (8) Forwards
    Will Bruin, Eddie Johnson, Juan Agudelo, Kenny Cooper, Nick DeLeon, Chris Pontius, Josh Gatt, CJ Sapong
    Alternates: Jack McInerney, Dilly Duka, Steve Lenhart, Freddy Adu, Omar Salgado, Sal Zizzo, Mike Magee
    Omit: Teal Bunbury (injured), Brek Shea (injured), Chris Wondolowski (old), Alan Gordon (old)
    Wildcard: Aron Johannson (makes list), Darlington Nagbe (alternate), Danny Mwanga (alternate)


    First Game:
    ----------Pontius----Johnson-----Gatt--------------
    ----------------O' Brien------Zusi---------------------
    ----------------------McCarty--------------------------
    Morrow-------------------------------------Beitashour
    ----------------Besler----------Gonzalez-------------
    -----------------------Rimando-----------------------

    Captain: Graham Zusi
    Bench: Hamid, Myers, Berry, Kitchen, Diskerud, DeLeon, Agudelo

    Second Game:
    --------------Pontius-----Agudelo----Gatt-------------
    --------------------Diskerud-------Zusi------------------
    ----------------------------O' Brien----------------------
    Morrow--------------------------------------------Beitashour
    -------------------Besler-------------Gonzalez---------
    ----------------------------Johnson---------------------

    Captain: Graham Zusi
    Bench: Clark, Sinovic,Berry, McCarty, DeLeon, Cooper, Johnson

    Not Used (Called in for training): Hedges, Okugo, Gaven, Gil, Evans, Silva, Sapong
     
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  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    JK called Rico into his first camp and then CC2012 all while Rico was not playing a single first team minute. There is clearly something that JK likes about Rico's game. Can you say ball winner with speed, range, and ferocious tackling ability.
     
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  7. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member

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    And potatoes are South American.

    It's a German word, Klinsi's dad was a baker, in Bavaria - ya think he sold some strudel? But, it's just meant to be funny. If you don't like it feel free to stick w/ cupcake, Sheldon.
     
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  8. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Yeah, I was talking about the 23rd spot for a World Cup squad. I think we have 60+ players more important to evaluate than Rico.

    He was trying to get him a new European contract after he washed out with Eintract. Also, he's a 30 year old fringiest of the fringe players. If we are looking at fringe players, lets get some 19-25 year olds in there

    That would be great for him but I would love for him to at least be in the picture for the USMNT
     
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    I agree. Lets get all the 19-25 yo with the range, speed, and ball winning skills as Rico.
     
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  10. Ace08

    Ace08 Member

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    Which begs the question ....why hasn't Rico been tried out/converted full time to CB?

    By international midfielder quality standards...he's a below average with the ball at his feet both from a passing and possession standpoint. But the kid can defend, that's his strength...it's what he does.

    At a position where the senior squad is so desperately in need of quality options I really think Clark could be a hidden surprise.
     
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  11. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

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    Noted elsewhere, but Honduras has two pre-Hex matches lined up ...

    January 18 v El Salvador

    January 22 v Panama

    I can see JK wondering about the usefulness of a camp (& game) populated only by players he does NOT plan to bring to Honduras, but I would think not having any camp/game would be a lost opportunity to see players who might prove useful, down the road if not right away.
     
  12. az2004

    az2004 Member

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    agree fully, unless players do the honduras match, why have a friendly

    we can name the roster already

    gold cup are the matches for the 2nd and 3rd tier, they relly, the results tahat is, don't count

    evaluation matters far more, and once gold cup is over, a handful will prorgress to 2nd half of the hex

    el salvador, and panama, do NOT emulate usa t all, it
    'll be a run out, more than anything
     
  13. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Of that list I, too, would like to see Silva instead of Clark or whomever. Also, I admit to not having watched much of Alston of late. Has he improved at all? If not, I'd rather see a Chance Meyers or even a Conor Lade or pretty much any other young defender with promise. EJ is a known quantity and though I think he has looked his best this year, not sure what he gets out of it. Would rather see Gordon or (ducks) Lenhart or even Cooper, Wenger....
     
  14. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    Like I said Conor O'Brien has all these skills and still has potential to be better. Also, should I ignore the fact that you are from Houston?

    Clark is not going to be in the World Cup no matter what, so how much time should we invest on him? He is a total known quality, he's already plateaued. The whole process and theme of 2013 is about finding players that could possible crack the lineup in 2014 and/or players that could be used beyond Brazil. Clark is neither of these.

    This camp and the Gold Cup is a means to an end. And frankly it feels like the results are not terribly important to Jurgen, so having toughness or a veteran pressence or experience is not the point. It's for finding talent that is going to contribute is the short/mid/long term. Again, not Clark. Not good enough for the short term, too old for the long term.

    It's a pretty simple time equation. After this cycle, I feel comfortable saying that he is out of the picture A,B,C Team or otherwise. He's essentially already out of it now. Why bother?
     
  15. bmo180

    bmo180 Member+

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    I think O'Brien is more of a linking holding mid/playmaker, not as much defensive as Rico, but I agree Rico would be a worthless call, Kitchen, Dax, and O'Brien can hold it down at holding mid, imo Dax>Rico
     
  16. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

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    I've seen a few people list Pearce as a fullback, but didn't he play most of the year at CB and do pretty well? I'd rather get a look at him there, we haven't seen him at CB for the National team and I think a mobile, skilled, left footed CB to backup Cameron would useful to have, and would be able to cover at LB in an emergency as well. I think he could do a lot of what Klinsmann wanted from Orozco when he was tried at CB, but potentially be better.
     
  17. j0osh

    j0osh Member

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    It's the same situation with guys like Jay DeMerit, Brad Davis and I think, now, Kyle Beckerman. These 27-30 year old, primarily career MLS (level) players are in a limbo and are going to get left in the cold in what remains of this ccyle, and will inevitably be too old for the next. It's, in some cases, unfair...but toally necessary.

    Jurgen has said 100 times that his focus for fringe players in on the youngsters. If not, its the same old cycle and why our team is always trending old comparatively.

    We have more talent than ever, so you have to explore them early with the full national team.
     
  18. az2004

    az2004 Member

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    agree fully about kids, they have a future

    the gold cup is the 2nd tier of players, and that will tell us more than anything a camp cupcake could

    they would have pt from mls into gold cup and would be sharper

    i could care less abouta january camp cupcakes
     
  19. az2004

    az2004 Member

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    agree fully about kids, they have a future

    the gold cup is the 2nd tier of players, and that will tell us more than anything a camp cupcake could

    they would have pt from mls into gold cup and would be sharper

    i could care less abouta january camp cupcakes
     
  20. MadRHatter

    MadRHatter Member

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    Does anyone think Luis Gil is old/polished/good enough for a call up to the upcoming Gold Cup?
     
  21. bmo180

    bmo180 Member+

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    Davis I actually wouldnt mind. We dont have many real left wingers who can provide good service like him, and he hasn't gotten a chance in a while. He dominates MLS so I think he could at least be useful against teams like Jamaica, Panama, Honduras and Costa Rica
     
  22. FlipsLikeAPancake

    FlipsLikeAPancake Member+

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  23. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    Its called Copa CentroAmericana.. they're not friendlies, or kick-abouts.. its our qualification to next Summer's Gold Cup. We didn't line these games up, we were just simply drawn into their group. Most likely see the MLS guys and domestic based players who are viewed as on the fringes of the National Team.
     
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  24. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

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    I said matches, not friendlies (or kick-abouts), but lined up was poor word choice - I should have said scheduled. The point was that Honduras is playing two matches in January, and we may not play any. Whether you make those matches of some value or not is up to you.

    Rather than have us guess at the specific players referenced in your last sentence, how many of the players from the Copa CentroAmericana matches in January (do you think) will be on the Honduras WCQ roster in February? I will blindly predict substantial, not minimal, overlap.

    Klinsmann very likely thinks that his/our personnel overlap - January friendly to February WCQ match - would be minimal, which might have him questioning the value (as preparation) of having a camp/friendly at all.
     
  25. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

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    lets see... The MLS based players who will get called-up: El Muma, El Hijo de Viento, El Zurdo, Oscar Boniek Garcia, and Jerry Bengtson

    The domestic based players who will get called-up: Noel Valladares, Donis Escober, Jose Mendoza which are the GKs.. Wilmer Crisanto, Jose Velasquez, Arnold Peralta, Luis Garrido, and Roger Rojas

    Then you got the fringe players who will most likely be called-up to the Copa CentroAmericana and were previously called-up for the previous WCQ round but who might or might not get called-up for these rounds: Johnny Leveron, Mario Berrios, Glen Mitchel Brown, Edder Delgado, Juan Carlos Garcia, and Carlos Discua

    Then you got players who can probably see time against the US if they have a good Copa CentroAmericana showing, like Hendry Thomas who hasn't been looked at till his arrival to the MLS. Roger Espinoza might be gone to Europe, so I haven't counted him, for those who might be wondering why he wasn't listed.

    But as far as the starting XI.. you're looking at seven.. maybe six if Osman Chavez regains form by February.. five if Edgar Alvarez is healthy, and four if Wilson Palacios gains some sort of rhythm, but I'ma go out on a limb and say six.
     
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