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Obama Failure Thread Part VI

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    Dr. Wankler repped this.


  2. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

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    So he's autistic and sociopathic?
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator Staff Member

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    All jokes aside, if you don't already, you should make a regular habit of reading Professor Dorf's legal blog. IMHO, he and Professor Buchanan write some of the most insightful articles you'll find on the webs about legal/political/economic issues.
     
  4. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

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    I thought this part was pretty telling...

    Meanwhile, labor economists over the years have tried to test empirically whether minimum wages affect employment levels. Results differed, but the non-confirming results were not enough to shake the consensus. Then, almost 20 years ago, two rising stars in economics changed everything. Using a very limited study (based on fast-food establishments in New Jersey and Pennsylvania), David Card and Alan Krueger found that a higher minimum wage had no negative effect on employment levels, and might even have some positive effects. This was a bombshell, made all the more potent when Card was awarded the John Bates Clark Medal (for the best economist under the age of 40) the following year.

    Ever since the Card/Krueger study was circulating (months before publication), the pushback from the pro-business crowd has been fierce. There was a study by two economists who claimed to have replicated the survey that Card and Krueger relied upon, but making corrections that reversed the results. Those economists, however, refused to share their data (violating scholarly norms), and their credibility was further tarnished when it turned out that their rushed study had been financed by the fast food industry. Card and Krueger then published a "meta analysis" of previous studies of the minimum wage, concluding that there was evidence that the anti-minimum wage studies had been affected by researcher biases. In other words, because everyone "knows" that the minimum wage reduces employment, some researchers manipulated their empirical work to confirm that preconception.


     
    Dyvel and bigredfutbol repped this.


  5. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

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    I read the link, and I plan too. Good stuff.
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Preconceptions are even easier to confirm when confirming the preconception pays well.
     
  7. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    LOL! Get some game or stay off the court?

    Here, let's start with the minimum wage, if simply raising it spurs economic growth and job creation why is it necessary to mandate a minimum wage at all? The minimum wage represents a entry point into the job market, nothing more. Low skilled and young workers enter the job market and then move up the ladder as they gain marketable skills. Artifically raising the minimum wage simple means that fewer people will be hired at entry level positions and prices will increase. It does nothing to improve the lot of the middle class which Obama's rational for increasing it. Sadly neither Obama or you understand much about basic economics.
     
  8. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    Surely there are logical limits for where the entry point can be set. A $35 minimum wouldn't work. That said, is there a study that supports this? I'm no economist, but I know how to read. I'm not having any difficulty finding studies that suggest your hypothesis is incorrect, but I haven't found much other than non-economists claiming that Obama and his economists know nothing to support it.
     
  9. Umar

    Umar Member+

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    I haven't read the entire thread, but my understanding is that the advocates of minimum wage argue that raising the wage to the proposed level will not necessarily increase the level of jobs and economic growth. The argument is that it will have no noticeable effect on those things whilst at the same increasing the disposable income of the poorest in society. At least, that is what my argument would be.
     
  10. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    If you can’t find economists arguing against a minimum wage then you haven’t spent much time reading on the subject. The fact is most full time employees don’t work for the minimum wage so the argument that a $9 wage will magically raise millions out of poverty and into the middle class is moot.
     
  11. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    The reason the left proposes an increase in the minimum wage has nothing to do with economics. It is simply that a large constituency (the unions) have wages that are pegged to the minimum wage.
     
  12. Kobranzilla

    Kobranzilla Member

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    remind us again how this is going to KILL jobs? oh... and you will need something more than your own misinformed opinion and some article that the CoC wrote...a real study...did you read the link that Yoss provided?
     
  13. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Can you not read? I just outlined why raising the minimum wage is a bad idea and even pointed out the rationale behind Obama's decision to push for an increase.. And yes, I did read Yoss's link and am uncompelled. I doubt either Yoss or his friend Dorf have ever hired an minimum wage employee. I have.

    Perhaps you could address the issues I raised rather spew some content less drivel?
     
  14. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    I'm unfamiliar with the argument that a small increase in the minimum wage is going to magically do anything. I'm not very good at research, so I'm going to need help finding these economists. Come on, give me a little help.
     
  15. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    A jump to $9 is hardly a small increase.
     
  16. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    And the economists are where?
     
  17. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Pick up a financial news paper.

    I am curious, will you agree to a basic economic priniciple that charging more for something reduces the demand for the item?
     
  18. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    None handy. A little help?
     
  19. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Google it.

    Since you didn't answer my question, I'll reword it. Can you name one other production input that could sustain a 24% increase in cost and not have an dramatic economic impact?
     
  20. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    Google is what I've got, and I'm not seeing economists or studies by economists who agree with you. Can you name one other production input that is assured to pump the exact same money back into the general economy?
     
  21. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    This hack is no Dorf but he does a pretty good job:


    So what is the the current teenage unemployment rate? And what is the black teenage unemployment rate?

    And please try to explain how increasing labor costs is going to pump the money back into the economy. If it was that simple why not raise the minimum wage to $20?
     
  22. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    Good job. Current and prescient. And he brought studies to back up his assertions too.
     
  23. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    I am to assume the basic rules of economies have changed? And why won't you address my questions. They are basic and straight forward.
     
  24. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    I answered your question with a question. I realize that's a little complicated. Unemployment rates are still a bit high, especially with young people and minorities. Is there empirical evidence that's related to minimum wages?
     
  25. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    Yes, the yoots are the ones with no job skills that enter the work force at the bottom. You would think that would be obvious, but then you believe because Milton Friedman is dead his words have no wisdom.
     

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