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OFC should get 1 full spot

Discussion in 'Oceania' started by Therk, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. burning_phoneix

    burning_phoneix Member

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    Someone should rename this thread the "Give New Zealand automatic qualification to every World Cup thread".

    Like winster said, until nations like Papua New Gueana and New Caledonia start giving the Kiwis trouble, then .5 seats is enough for OFC.
     


  2. tfjones

    tfjones New Member

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    Oceania should become part of Asia and Asia should have two halves, being West Asia and East Asia Pacific.

    The final group of 10 should be split based upon skill and ranking for each group (most likely 7-3 or 6-4 either way).

    EAP should include teams like Australia, NZ, Japan and other such Eastern countries.

    Asia should be given the current 0.5 seats that Oceania has.

    That said, I would actually like to see the qualification system changed to a home & away qualifying series based on rankings (qualifying by region) and not just region.

    First two years should be regional low ranked teams playing to leave 96 teams left.

    Last two years should be:
    (1) 12 groups of 8 (home & away=14 games) with top 2 teams qualifying (Spots 1-24) and 3rd & 4th going to stage 2.
    (2) 6 groups of 4 (home & away=6 games) with top team qualifying (Spots 25-30) and 2nd with most points [or wins/goals/etc] qualify (Spot 31).

    Spot 32nd is to host country. If more then 1 host country then Spot 31 can be 2nd host country.

    Seedings should occur based upon points, wins, goals & other details in stages 1 (Seedings 1-24) & 2 (Seedings 25+), with host being seeding based upon world ranking compared to other seeded teams.
     
  3. druryfire

    druryfire BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    So by adding OFC you would split the AFC into two, just for the sake of one nation really.

    This would thus kill the Asian Cup to begin with.

    It would be much easier adding the OFC winners to the latter round. Or if you wanted more groups with the lesser teams then to play them in one host country like in previous years. But then this would bring other issues.
     
  4. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

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    A definite NO to the former... yes to the latter but just give AFC 5 straight spots.
     


  5. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

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    Handball is ruled by the IHF. While the UK is only represented by a single federation in handball, Macao and Hong Kong are IHF members. So are Greenland and the Faroe Islands, btw - Greenland has particpated in 3 World championships:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_national_handball_team
     
  6. X@V!3R

    X@V!3R Member

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    Well, not if you limit this statement to the group stage ... which you should, since after that it becomes a knock-out tournament where someone must lose.

    Taking this into account; Uruguay, Argentina, USA, England, Netherlands, Paraguay, Brazil, and Portugal also fit this criteria.

    And of these teams, New Zealand was the only team not to win a game.

    Coincidentally, they were also the only team not to advance from their group.

    So there you go.

    Anyway, until Oceania gets deeper ... MUCH deeper ... there's no way the OCF deserves a full spot.
     
  7. JohnBlah123

    JohnBlah123 Member

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    the only federation that i could see loosing a spot is africa
     
  8. Hermes

    Hermes Member

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    lol no
     
  9. nzclarke

    nzclarke New Member

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    Think its quite good as it is, I like the idea of a draw for the playoff, If we pull Conca then we should be good to get through to Brazil bring it on.
     
  10. AllWhitebeliever

    AllWhitebeliever Moderator Staff Member

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    Well having OFC winners and runners-up in the final two groups of AFC would allow a fairer parity with both AFC and OFC teams in determining which 5 teams should be going to the World Cup. I don't think that having a bye during the AFC's 5 team groups isn't particularity useful as some teams would have a better break than others. So it makes better sense to use that up by playing the OFC teams. I can't see AFC having 6 team groups because the qualification road is not easily drawn up, but having the top two OFC teams would just slot in well. Plus having the OFC runner-up have an vital role with OFC having some point to prove that other OFC teams besides NZ have some football ability to foot with the AFC, it gets the OFC teams besides NZ a chance better competition outside OFC, it would give harder competition before the world cup. It would also vitalise the OFC teams ambition for the world cup and greater promote football around the islands.

    I am not sure whether AFC can morally justified their 5th team to play off against the OFC winner. I don't think they are strong enough as a confederation despite the size. Besides Australia losing to Iran in the 70s, whenever OFC teams are linked with AFC in the qualification rounds, the AFC 5th team always has lost. With the OFC winner/runners-up in the final AFC groups there must be more chance and leeway for both OFC and AFC teams to prove their worth over a series of games rather than play-offs. I find that play-offs wins can only be down to a few incidental event rather than the general self selections of a good team over a series of games.

    I would think that if NZ and the OFC runner-up was included in the last world cup qualification in the AFC group that maybe both Bahrain and NZ would have been in South Africa and North Korea would have stayed home. Then West Asia would have a team in South Africa. But that is my opinion without looking at the AFC final group make-up and qualification route.

    I am also of an opinion that having a AFC West/East split is not morally justified as well because there was no West Asia team in the last World Cup. So having OFC to join AFC outright (i.e. no split) makes no sense, especially combining of the two of the most weakest and largest confederation making more traveling and expense bigger.
     
  11. almango

    almango Member

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    I'm not sure that OFC can justify two teams in the final round. The strength isn't there. If Asia and OFC were to combine the qualification process then two teams in the 3rd round may be justified, but let's be honest here, New Zealand is the only team that would be anywhere close to top 10 in Asia. The next best would struggle in any 3rd round group. Last time New Caladonia came second, and the Asian 3rd round groups were

    Australia
    Qatar
    Iraq
    China

    Japan
    Bahrain
    Oman
    Thailand

    Korea Rep
    Korea DPR
    Jordan
    Turkmenistan

    Suadi Arabia
    Uzbekistan
    Singapore
    Lebanon

    New Caledonia would have been hard pressed not to finish last in any of these groups.

    In any case, OFC remains a separate Confederation, and they may not even be playing off against AFC this time around.
     
  12. AllWhitebeliever

    AllWhitebeliever Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose it is easy to write off the OFC runners-up and the fact remains that the other OFC nations besides NZ do not have much interconfederational game experience. So really, we are going of the basis on how well NZ has beaten them in games to even make some comparsions.

    NZ slots in the top 8 of AFC (anywhere from 8th to 4th IMO) and the next OFC team (whether it is New Caladonia, Fiji, Vanuatu or Solomon Islands who have beaten and drawn with NZ before) can foot it with the other AFC countries ranked in AFC over the range of 26th to 8th. It depends on how organised they are.

    Honestly although OFC is weaker by FIFA ranking, it is actually very deceptive as the 2-5th OFC ranked teams are actually stronger than you would think. The real reason that their rankings is lower is due to the fact of the lack of interconfedrational games and having less volume of games and therefore having the wrong type of coach. As NZ has found out (and in times past Australia) an away game to the pacific islands is much harder when some of the OFC teams do get a decent coach and are more organised. Usually the blow out scores are really reflecting more of the association's budget with ill preparation and the players are much better than the coaches they get.

    So what am I saying? Well if there was a more stronger pathway with more stronger competitive teams to play against, then the funding for a decent organised support/coach, the ambition is higher than just facing NZ (which is blocking their way and more organised) and their mentality would change. They are confidence type teams and if they change that, then you really do have a competitive team to contend with.

    In the last ten years, I know that Fiji has constantly won the interconfederation games against Malaysia and India. The other teams (New Caladonia, Vanuatu or Solomon Islands) haven't played outside of OFC. But they have given NZ a run for their money enough times to suggest they are much better than their rankings.

    Anyway, as you mention, the playoff stuff for the next World Cup is yet to be decided and the pathways are generally decided within the confederation.

    I guess my thing is I think that OFC countries are underestimated and the OFC runner-up is decently competitive enough to bother some of the better AFC. Outside the runner-ups, the other OFC tend to blow up, be inconsistent or lack the confidence and the islands tend to take turns in who has the confidence to go through. Mainly if you spot who does well in the first few rounds, you know which team will prevail at the end. Its their mentality and organisation that is their problem, however there is no other reason they can't take on the might of AFC besides money and traveling time. I actually dare any of the AFC teams (besides the top 3; Australia, South Korea and Japan) to travel to the islands and play a strong dorminant game. They will find it very very hard. If they win. It would be by a goal not by a huge score. The top half of OFC is underestimated as much as NZ was underestimated in the World Cup.
     
  13. psveindhoven

    psveindhoven New Member

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    OFC just isn't good enough for one spot, they don't even have one club in the 422 richest sports clubs in the world list:

    http://www.stadiumzone.weebly.com

    Face it, Oceania has a low population and other sports that are bigger than soccer.
     
  14. druryfire

    druryfire BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    Although I agree that OFC shouldn't get 1 full spot, i'm not quite sure why your using richest sports clubs as an example. Are you saying that if they were to get a club team in the top 422, then they should get a national team all the way to the World Cup?
     
  15. druryfire

    druryfire BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    This is a very grey area. All the games were friendlies, 5 games in fact (with 1 loss), played on home turf. I'd personally like to see something more competitive to begin with.
     
  16. AllWhitebeliever

    AllWhitebeliever Moderator Staff Member

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    For sure, it's all very speculative reasoning. OFC can't getting enough FIFA rankings simply because the only way to get more FIFA points is to playing outside their confederation and against higher ranked teams. The points and rankings improve in OFC if they are to play against higher teams outside their confederation. There is a lack of sch games and so they can only hope that NZ does well overseas and that they can upset NZ enough times over the a certain period to grab decent points and better increase of ranking.
     
  17. druryfire

    druryfire BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    The rankings are tough to measure. I don't know what the co-effiecents are, but I'd expect that the AFC and OFC aren't too far away from each other.

    Friendlies, you hardly score points on anyway, and for an OFC team to really go up the rankings, they would need to play a big Asian nation, but the big Asian nations harldy play the little guns anyway.

    What the OFC would be stuck with is playing teams like Lebanon, Tajikistan for example on there turf, which in all reality would never happen due to the logistics.

    It seems like it is all on NZ's shoulders. It's a pity the OFC can't build up an relationship with the EAFF and partake in a newly structured EAFF-OFC Championship. Of course, only NZ would have a chance at this moment of reaching the final stages, but at least it would give the likes of Fiji, New Caledonia that experience of playing a Hong Kong/Mongolia in an competitive environment.

    It is of course all about relationships with other federations, but unitl these develop, I can't see a confederation taking OFC seriously.
     
  18. AllWhitebeliever

    AllWhitebeliever Moderator Staff Member

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    Another way would be to make more regional/invitational pan-pacific rim tournament by the OFC that pops up every two years. National Teams across pan-pacific would be invited to play and that would be a cross-section of various levels. To make it popular, a 16 team tournament can be similar formated to pool play, with the top half of the pool to go straight to major tournament knockouts and the bottom half to play knockouts for plate and bowl. That way it would be worthwhile to turn up and be slotted to play against sides more suited to their level after pool play as well as having the taste the experience of playing a top team.

    Also there could be a chance that an upset can happen as some top countries may carelessly send their second team/olympic team to an A-international grade tournament for some playing experience simply because of the format allows some playing level parity. Well that is what I think can help the OFC's lack of confederation and inter-confederation games as well as having some possible FIFA solid points available for all teams.:cool:
     
  19. druryfire

    druryfire BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    You've hit the nail on the head there.
     
  20. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member

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    I'd like a system where the top OFC team joins the AFC 3rd round, not 4th round though.
     
  21. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

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    That would require the OFC champion to be determined one year after the previous World Cup. If AFC keeps the same format and schedule, the AFC third round would start in September 2015. The four teams in the OFC final group play 9 WCQs before the interconfederational playoff and excluding the Semifinals, Third Place game, and Final of the OFC Nations Cup because those games determine the Confederations cup representative but have no impact on WCQs. The AFC third and fourth rounds require 14 combined games which makes 23 if you add the AFC games and could be 27 if an OFC team play in Round Five and an interconfederational playoff, although if the OFC winner played in AFC WCQs the AFC might not be in an interconfederational playoff anymore.
     
  22. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

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    I'd leave federations like they're. An example: this time, South America could have given his spot to Oceania and that's it. Brazil hosts, 4 more teams qualify: is there really a need of 6th SA-team?

    With the host recollocating every year, the spot of the host's federation should be give to Oceania. Otherwise, don't call it "World Cup", but add at the end "...without Oceania".
     
  23. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

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    I agree with the title of this thread... Oceania should get 1 full spot..... in the AFC qualifying round! :)
     
  24. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

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    In that case, just leave the intercontinental play-off.
     
    glennaldo_sf repped this.
  25. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

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    Bingo! Or just give AFC/OFC 5 full spots and have North/South America playoff for the one last playoff spot.. makes sense if you ask me...
     
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