Official 2012 J1 Thread [R] - part I

Discussion in 'Japanese Club Football' started by dokool, Feb 8, 2012.

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  1. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member

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    Consadole Sapporo
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    No, it just seemed to me that you based ur preview on stuff that doesn't really matter, or things that you may have been mistaken about.

    Mixing Quirino with Diogo, referring to Consadole as an old team ( when only 1-2 players over 30 were regular starters last season, and the same is expected this year), mistaking Kondo for an oldie, or listing Sunakawa as a defensive contributor, referring to the team being a bunch of journeymen when 6-7 out of 11 starters are more or less homegrown, Izhizaki's status as well as some others.

    You said it urself that you didnt follow Consadole that much, and I'm sure I've done the same mistakes for clubs that I dont have followed before, like the two newly promoted clubs as an example.

    Of course, everyone will end up having Consadole finish near the bottom of the table, so in that we agree ( I'm not saying I have them as the biggest relegation-favorite though) considering they were the team that finished 3rd in J2 last season added to the fact that few quality players have been brought in.

    But some of the labels you put on them were not accurate, that's all, and again that seemed to be stuff that your preview was based on.

    Other than that I want to add that your previews was once again an interesting read=)


  2. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member

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    Yeah, absolutely, I appreciate the same things, but in this case it was a bit different imho.
  3. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    Dude -
    Kondo was a fat old waddler back when he played for FC Tokyo. 27 for some people is not the same as 27 for others. With Maeda as a newcomer you have a great start on a team for the hamburger-eating classic, but thats another story.

    Consadole has the highest average team age in J1. Take away the four recently promoted kids who wont play at all this year and it gets even worse. That isnt an "opinion" - its a verifiable fact.

    I didnt "mistake" Qirinho for Diogo; though I do admit that I may have added some (bad) impressions I had of Diogo from last season to the already poor impression I had of Qirinho from the previous two years. He hasnt proven himself in the J.League. Thats all I said. And if you disagree, you really ARE delusional.

    I havent bothered to make fun of previous comments saying that Machida FC is "stronger on paper than Matsumoto" (total prior J.League caps for ALL Machida players = 676, and just three players account for over 85% of that total. By comparison, 15 separate Yamaga players have at least 50 prior caps and I dont have time to tally the total - well over 2000, Im sure). Anyone's opinion about which team will perform better in J1 is as good as anyone elses, but "on paper", there is only one possible conclusion. In other words, that comment was pure folly.

    I dont know what your purpose is in DELIBERATELY trying to provoke an angry response. Because that is obviously what you are doing. But if you persist at it, this can only end badly. I published my "views" on each team. If you dont like them - fine - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But dont give me a load of hogwash as if my comments are somehow "wrong". . . .

    . . . . unless, of course, you are constipated, and you honestly WANT someone to rip you a new asshole. :rolleyes:
  4. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member

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    Whoah! I think we'll stop right there.

    Not everything written here is a direct critiscism towards you, so please don't flare up like someone put lighter fluid on a bonfire for every little thing. I simply came with my two cents on things that I disagreed with you on, as well as corrected some things that you were clearly wrong about, so how on earth can you then try to make it sound like you are still right? That doesnt make sense:confused:

    I'm not gonna put more effort or time into this, but just one last thing:

    The comment about ripping someone's asshole, was really uncalled for and I really hope you don't use this kind of language when you talk to people face-to-face.

    (The Machida vs Matsumoto is a different debate that I'm sure we could take somewhere else, but I rather not, based on how this one is going).


  5. Matsu

    Matsu Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001

    Clearly wrong about?
    Jezis H. Chrysanthemum, man, would you just listen to yourself for a few seconds!

    You say Im "wrong" about how old the team is, because the players WHO ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO PLAY arent old?

    Now dont get me wrong on this - I dont mean to doubt your psychic powers. Im sure you have already seen the lineups of every game that is going to be played in 2012 so when you make that statement, you are doing so on a sound rational basis . . . . BUT . . . . since I have to write a preview for people who dont necessarily have your psychic skills, I have to look at the data showing that Consadole is the oldest team on average in the J1, and make some comment about them being an old team. Im sure that you know better, but at least understand my position . . .

    Next, you said I was "WRONG" about coach Ishizaki being a good coach. Once again, Im sure that you have much better insight into the true meaning of "good" and "bad" than I do. But I have to look at the actual record of him taking over J2 teams that look in disarray, reorganizing them and leading them back to J1, and tell my readers that he seems to be a good coach. Im sure you have a better insight than me on this, but calling me "Wrong" is going a bit too far.

    I stated that Consadole's three foreigners have "not really proven themselves in the J.League". Now Im sure that you were able to make a keen and insightful judgement about the quality of Jade North based on his four appearances for Tokyo last year, and on Qirinho based on a total of 65 appearances - all of them in the J2 - over three seasons (and Juninho based on his 1 appearance in a practice scrimmage). But if I were to write that "Consadole has a trio of highly skilled and proven contributors in their foreign contingent" Im sure Id have some other know-it-all jumping on my back, instead of you, so I guess I cant win on that one.

    </sarcasm>

    Now do you see why Im a bit annoyed to hear you telling me that my forecasts are "Wrong" ?

    If not then theres no hope for you.
    Next year, when I post "who cares" after the Sapporo graphic and then move on to the next team, please dont bother asking why. At some point you just have to stop giving people opportunities to snipe at you for no good reason.
  6. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member

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    I want to write more, but as I said in my previous post, I think we should leave it there. If you want to have the "last word" and with that "win" the debate then be my guest =)

    No hard feelings.
  7. gifu richy

    gifu richy Member

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    Ok boys, enough of that;)

    So who are everyones predictions for being relegated this year??

    Tosu and Sapporo are always going to struggle and will be most peoples favorites to fall but the third spot. I'd personally love to see Urawa drop down after being let off by Kofu last year (if not just to boost J2 attendance numbers:D) but at the moment I'm thinking that Iwata might struggle.
  8. Pjdawa

    Pjdawa Member

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    Iwata...actually i was thinking that they have the potential for a top 5 finish...:cool:

    S-Pulse looks more fragile IMO.
    Also Sanfrecce could have some hard times, and Vegalta "momentum" could come to an end.
  9. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member

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    I also considers Iwata being a non relegation candidate. I considered them for relegation last year but the team was much stronger so........

    I wouldnt be surprised if 2012 were the season were either Omiya or Niigata went down.
  10. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

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    Niigata is a real candidate for relegation. They sell someone every year.
  11. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

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    Omiya in J2? That's absolutely impossible :) They always were close and it never happened. And considering their squad now that's even more unlikely.
  12. gifu richy

    gifu richy Member

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    yeah, I've given up on picking Omiya to go down. They always manage to stay up!

    Niigata looked dodgy last year, how are their signings this year?

    I don't think Sendai look like going down (knock on wood). Although they most likely won't be sitting too close to the top again. With their team of 2011 mainly still together for 2012 defensively they should be strong enough to finish mid-table or slightly below depending on how their new signings go up front.
  13. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member

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    Accidentally posted this in the J2 thread. Forgot that Consadole were promoted. Those bastards.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo7_3aQ7WfU"]?????????????????? - YouTube[/ame]

    Gon44

    A real idol group.
  14. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member

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    loooooooooooooooooooooooooool

    but it was definately not just taken on video, but clearly arranged :p
  15. KATO

    KATO Member

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    Relegation candidates for me (In no particular order) are Sagan, Omiya (This will be the season!) and Sanfrecce.

    Too early to judge, but I'm really worried about Sanfrecce. New coach, lost some players and with the way Petrovic fielded the same XI each week, not much depth in the squad.
  16. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

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    One training match win and the mouthbreathers are back in their full arrogant glory!
  17. CND_MARINO

    CND_MARINO Member

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    Sagan maybe, but I think Omiya are strong enough to stick around again.
  18. Hoolinmazedog

    Hoolinmazedog Member

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    I think Omiya will be top half for sure.

    While they were very generous with points towards Fukuoka last year I think they have done the best business over the winter.

    Niigata, Consadole and Saga for relegation.
  19. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

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    I make my own predictions.

    Champions: Nagoya Grampus
    ACL Spots: Kashiwa Reysol, Yokohama F. Marinos
    4th place: Vissel Kobe

    Relegation-spots: Albirex Niigata, Sagan Tosu (but i'm very curious to see them) and probably Consadole Sapporo. Although, i don't see so well Kawasaki Frontale. They lost Juninho and they can't make it if Soma make the squad disappear for 4-5 months, like last year.
  20. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member

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  21. KATO

    KATO Member

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  22. Blue-San

    Blue-San Member+

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    I would have a question.


    On Rising Sun News website in their preseason predictions it is said for F.C. Tokyo

    When I tried to find that game on youtube or elsewhere I was unable to. So 2 questions actually

    1) Did this really happen? (13 times against the woodwork)

    2) If it did, where is the replay of that match
  23. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

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    Surely it didn't happen in that game as FC Tokyo had 12 shots on the goal so that's impossible. Also no game report writes about something unusal happening in that game. And I don't remember anything like that happening last year anywhere in Japan :confused:
  24. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member

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    I might have a copy of that game in my archive ( it goes back to September/October last year), so I can have a look if I have time.
  25. dokool

    dokool Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, FC Tokyo's official match report doesn't mention a single shot hitting the woodwork.

    Check out the highlights: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j8qmz8coco"]FC??vs??SC? ?????? - YouTube[/ame]

    Not one clanger there either.

    I am shocked, shocked that Matsu would distort, exaggerate, or even invent statistics in order to attempt to make a point. Truly. Shocked. :rolleyes:
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