Official 2012 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - part I

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Micol, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    Yes, the video is very new! It's 5 days we were looking for it! :D
    At least we get the goals of the Okinawa match vs Sky Blue FC...

    The first goal was scored by Chiaki Minamiyama, mumf.

    Well, for me it's easily:
    1st goal = C
    2nd goal = A
    3rd goal = B

    But that doesn't mean that they weren't all good goals. ^__^

    I see there was a lot of wind in Okinawa that day... could it have been a factor in the progress of the game? Could it explain why INAC didn't manage to score in the first half?


  2. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    Japan lost to USA in the traning match today. It was a closed door match, so not much information available in terms of what format or who played although we can assume both teams were mainly sub members. Apperantly Tobin Heath was the only scorer.
  3. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    1st goal = C
    2nd goal = B
    3rd goal = A

    If the first goal was a chip and she meant it, then this would be A. But I'm not sure if that was a chip...

    Kyokawa's first goal was good, but I'm not sure what the Sky Blue's defenders were doing there. Kyokawa had all the space and time in the world in the box to check in and curled it (admittedly it was beautiful). It was almost like shooting practice as there was no pressure from defenders. Probably I would appreciate it more if she had done that with one or two defenders around her.

    The third goal impressed me the most. Good first touch and bang to the top corner with no time - with supposedly her weeker foot. She looks like a proper striker there.
  4. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    I changed my mind. I go for Minamiyam's goal as A. I've just watched with bigger screen as my coleague next to me just wondered off ;-) It does look like a chip and I think she meant it as she looks up and checks the goal keeper. Well they are all impressive indeed.


  5. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    I agree that they were all impressive... In fact I still keep changing my mind about them, since i posted my choice! :p

    I actually think it's a crime that first Kyokawa goal isn't rated higher, because, although, as hirohiro said, there was no pressure from the defense, it looked technically superb...
    I still wonder if the wind was somehow a factor in the power she managed to give to these shots, even when not using her main foot...

    I won't keep changing around my rankings, because it would take forever to get to a final choice... :D
    I state that they were 3 very good goals, and I go watching and enjoying them one more time, trying to appreciate better the chip hirohiro was pointing to...

    On a different note: people, in your opinion we should tell some mods that we just hit the #1000 post mark, so they don't get angry with us when they'll (possibly) discover it in the next months? :confused:
  6. joelps

    joelps Member

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    I thought all three goals were impressive--better than anything I've seen from Ando or the exasperating Nagasato for a while. Minamiyama was also impressive in the FC Barcelona-INAC Kobe (1-1) match in Feb. She and Kyokama may be stars in the making.
  7. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    Can I ask again if someone here is able to retrieve the full video of that episode? It should be hidden somewhere in previous Nadeshiko threads, but I can't seem to find it and I am sorry for that, because I found it very touching...

    When you'll watch the video you'll appreciate many things, but one thing standing up in the 2007-2012 part it's that it's one of the first times that I see the England-Japan match at WWC 2011 not swapt under the rug but seen as a key-moment in the tournament...
    Can some japanese friends translate for me what coach, players and comment say about that?

    Welcome on this thread, joelps! In fact lately Ando And Nagasato had ups and downs, but there's no doubt that players like Minamiyama and Kyokawa are the future... :)

    We're very happy you're posting here: stick with us for many interesting discussions. ;)
  8. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    Just before it talks about England match, the documentary touched about the frictions between players in Japan and Japanese players who play abroad. Ohno mentions those players had pride and confidence based on the fact that they play in one of the top leagues in the world. They talked about the difference between Japanese players’ attitude or mentality and players abroad (or in this case rather European players I suppose). And she also says when their opinions differ there were comments from those players (Ando or Nagasato I assume) that Japan are not one of the top nations because of the Japanese players’ mentality/ideology. From sound of it, I don’t think Ohno appreciated that as she says in the interview “we are playing for Nadeshiko not for a club team abroad. We have our own style when you play for Nadeshiko."

    Ando: "In Germany, it’s all about individual battles in one on one situation and winning the 50-50 ball. In Germany, as a forward, you are required to score goals. Not helping the defence or passing – you are judged by goals. So I found it difficult when I went back for the training for Nadeshiko, which demands forwards to press, and from there rest of the blocks make the move for the defence in conjunction."

    Nagasato: "I felt the difference in terms of football concept, and I threw away Japanese style (in Germany). You have to sacrifice defensive duty for attacking (in her opinion)."

    And then about the England match, it mainly talks about the defending from up front or lack of it in this case.

    Ando: It reconfirmed that if we don't press high up the pitch and win the ball in the right area, it's difficult to play our style of football.

    Kinga: If we neglect the defence upfront, it can lead to conceding a goal.

    After the England match, they had lots of meetings and discussions and how to approach the game against Germany. They need to defend as a team and organised way. You can not do that if the forwards don’t’ start pressing first. It shows the examples of that from the match against Germany.

    Not from this documentary, but this is one of the reasons why Sasaki substituted Nagasato at half time in Germany match. He later explained the reason for the substitution. It was because Nagasato was too slow in switching from attacking mode to defence mode. Also at half time in England match, Miyama grabbed Nagasato and shouted at her saying she needs to defend and cut the supply line from opponents defenders to defensive midfielder.

    Hew… I think I wrote too much here now… anyway, I hope you get what the documentary was trying to say. That’s why this England match was the turning point for Nadeshiko in this tournament. It reconfirmed how they have to play against the physically superior opponents like European teams and USA.
  9. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    Too much??? :eek: It was... enlightening. Really. That's exactly what I wanted to know, but couldn't grasp without access to what they were saying.
    From the video you could easily tell that the England-Japan match was seen as a turning point, but it wasn't clear exactly how and why.

    Every single word you traslated was precious, as much as additional info about Nagasato substitution and Miyama's half-time rant.

    For instance, I guess many non-japanese people, even here on this thread, were still convinced that Nagasato had been subbed out especially for her lack of aim in front of the goal, but it seems like that wasn't the case. And we have once more evidence that Miyama is not afraid of telling their team-mates exactly what she thinks and can surely be a good and reliable captain just for that (as much as Utsugi and friends can be "afraid" of it... :p).

    Also we can now understand better Nagasato's reaction and her tears after the Germany's match; it wasn't just the "dishonour" of being subbed or not having being able to score: it was an entire way to approach the game, her role in the National Team and, I could dare to say, an entire "way of life" that was under discussion! :eek:

    Also, I guess there is an evidence that Nagasato completely changed her attitude since those days. Whoever watched the Algarve Cup can tell how much work and pressing Yuki now does and that's probably why it looks like she solidly got back her place in the forward-line. She's now doing exactly what Sasaki and the team ask from her, while during the WWC she was stuck with a Bundesliga-like attitude and unable to really adapt to Nadeshiko style of play...

    Now, the goals are an entirely different question, but let's avoid this problem at the moment... ^__^

    Really, hirohiro, I guess I understood more from your words about how Nadeshiko team operates, both technically and psychologically, than from watching many games without crucial background information.

    I can see Ando's point. In fact her role in NT during WWC was quite obscure to many, even on these forums, and I admit it took me some time to correctly evaluate it: when you are used to be judged by "goals", it's really hard sacrificing yourself in a role that's virtually invisible to much of the audience...
    I have to say, though, that, when I realised the importance of Ando, it suddenly shone to me as a key-piece of this National Team. I can feel her unease, but, if I could, I'd say to her: keep up this good, difficult, apparently not rewarding work; I swear it's worth and those who closely follow Nadeshiko Team know how precious it is and praise you greatly.
  10. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    Agree with blissett, the detail is much appreciated. It must have been a big crisis. No mention of the horrible GK job in that game? (sorry to be so harsh, I saw it as Japan 0-2 Kaihori)

    I dont have time to look at these videos yet, not even the 2002-2007 ones. Does Nagasato actually cry after the Germany game? I seem to remember she cried after the Sweden game too.

    And to be clear - did Ando & Nagasato make an argument to the team that they should be concentrating on scoring goals, and then more or less they lost the debate? Or were they just explaining that, or making the excuse, "this is how we play now, forgive us, we will get used to it"?
  11. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    Not shown in any video, but I seem to remember that many sources, at the time, were saying that she hadn't reacted well to her substitution and also had cried in the tunnel.
    But I could remember badly.
  12. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    No mentions about the GK.

    Nagasato did cry after the Germany match when they were going around the pitch.

    Below is not my observation or guess but from the book by Mari Hibino who are very close to Nadeshiko players:

    Those tears were not from the joy of victory but rather disappointment/frustration being substituted in the match she had special feelings for (as she plays in Germany). After the England match there was a danger of Nagasato being isolated from rest of the team. But Miyama and some other players didn't allow that to happen. When they were walking around the pitch after the Germany match, Miyama hold Nagasato's hand and walked with her when Nagasato was crying. Fukumoto suggested Yamago that they make Nagasato sit next to them on the bentch in the Sweden's game and show what the sub members do during the match. Yamago said they wanted to show Nagasato all the players on the bench are fighting with the players on the pitch even though they are disappointed about not playing.

    I seem to have gone off topic again...

    As for your last question, for Nagasato I believe it was the case of her loosing out. She seems to have believed what she learnt in Germany was the best way to socre gaols but in the end she had to change the style when she plays for Nadeshiko.

    As for Ando, it was a bit different. In the interview, she says she found it difficult to adjust but she does understand that's how they have to play in Nadeshiko. She says it took a bit of time to adjust, but I don't think she had the opinion that the German style was better.
  13. hirohiro

    hirohiro Member+

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    I can't agree with you more about Nagasato in Algarve Cup. She looked like a different player (apart from inability to take chances - but let's face it she'll never be a prolific scorer).

    As for Ando, Sasaki said in an interview after the Germany match that he would give Ando the player of the match award although the official one was somebody else (I can't remember who that was). It was unusual for him to single out one player for his praise like that. That tells how important her role was, and the coach and players appreciate her hard work in that role - and that's all that matters for her.
  14. Batfink

    Batfink Member

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    Just looking back through this thread, and saw the links to the L-League/Nadeshiko history vids. I'll have to watch them all now, as all the talk relating to them seems to very interesting :cool:. The players thought's on the Nadeshiko style, and the resulting tears/internal issues brought out at the world cup because of it, makes perfect sense now, lol.

    On the Nadeshiko style vs a good goal scoring style, I said during the Algarve Cup that for all her recent improvement, in the long run I don't see Nagasato as the ideal player for the lone forward role with the Nadeshiko. The future of Nadeshiko is without a conventional #9, instead using 5 highly mobile and technical goal scoring AM's. So it's not surprising to hear about all the tension this created for the current forwards more accustomed to the conventional tactical methods of attacking football. Only a few male teams, and so far one female, have successfully pulled this trick off with any lasting legacy.

    Because of the difficulty of using the Japanese variation of the Ajax system, now called the 'Nadeshiko' system ;), Sasaki had to constantly rotate his forwards at the WWC to find a path to victory. The recent Sawa-less Algarve cup run appeared to show the message may finally be getting through to some of the more problematic players within the system, so come the Olympics, with all the extra prep, extra new found belief in the coaches philosophy, and a little injury luck, this time we could see a more all round commanding Nadeshiko performance.

    Oh, and I still think the 2nd goal from the Inac game vs Sky Blue was the best. Kyokawa only appeared to have more time than usual because she did everything so well. She fakes a cross with the left, takes a look up, then bends a beauty into the top corner of the far post. :eek: That is finishing of the highest order in any level of the game, because she had to think about what she was doing, and in football what you do with time and space is the difference between great players and good players.
  15. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    But hirohiro, this IS the topic ! Thanks again. Very interesting about Yuki and I am delighted to hear Sasaki's praise for Ando. There is a video here about Kawasumi but I was more impressed with some of Ando's play in the action.

    Also - sometimes Virany posts here, and has this great collection of videos on YT that I did not seem to notice before. Anyway here - http://www.youtube.com/user/virany/videos - you can see Virany has posted a daily update from Sendai (I think it is shot in personal too? not copied) and you can see the players wamring up for the Kirin. I really have only looked at one yet, but it looked good (Sasaki forced tgo do press-ups).

    And by the way, just saw this - last year Kumi Yokyama did get to go to Switzerland because of her "best goal" nomination, and doesnt she look different in high heels ? What an evening for her !
  16. unepomme

    unepomme Member+

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    U20Japan 2-2 FCF Juvisy

    Scorer:
    21分 Machart Julie(Juvisy)
    51分 19 道上 彩花(常盤木学園高校) Michigami (Tokiwagi)
    57分 Tonazzi Laetitia(Juvisy)
    71分 22 高野 紗希(FC高梁吉備国際大学) Takano (FC Takahasi)

    It seems that unusual players mostly played.

    http://www.jfa.or.jp/national_team/topics/2012/104.html
  17. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    I agree that nothing is more on topic here than hirohiro's last 2/3 posts, with traslations and super-insightful behind-the-scenes precious info. :p

    I still didn't have time to watch this video, but I'll do it soon: Kawasumi + Ando seems like a good reason. ^__^

    Yes, I had recently discovered this "mine" too. If Virany was already our good genius about pictures, I can only imagine what she can give to us with videos. I feel like a little child waiting for Santa's gifts... :D

    What I already watched is super-cool and high quality, like the video from 3 or 4 days ago, showing Nadeshiko players playing and laughing with Miyagi area little children, especially little Nadeshiko-wannabe-girls... ^__^ (the part where Kawasumi helps a little girl to tie her shoe-laces is priceless!)

    Well, if Ohno and Nagasato had some kind of argument during 2011 WWC, it seems like they remained very good friends: did you notice the beginning of the 28/03/2012 training session video, where Ohno jokingly mount on Nagasato's back? ^__^

    Lol she does look different indeed!... By the way, mumf, did you see this Okayama Yunogo Belle's training session video with Kumi Yokoyama & Mami Yamaguchi interviews? ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_tnlky1DWPU

    On a different note, people: USA-Japan is just tomorrow! Can you start throwing live feeds links, please? ^__^
  18. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    Be careful UnePomme - one of the starters was Naoko W (#17 in photo) ..... you know one of our posters here can get very crazy when she plays...... :D

    Well this is a good result, I think Kyra was not expecting they could match Juivsy, who are ahead of MHSC in the French league. I am pretty sure too that one of the Juivsy scorers, Laetitia, is a full French international.

    By the way, one of the u-20 scorers was Michigami who scored the nice header/winner for INAC in its 1st game against Sky Blue.

    Actually remember the off-side goal denied in the 2nd game? Well finally we have video - opinions?

    By the way, the 3 goals for INAC - having looked at them, I just cannot decide which is the best. I do think the 1st one was the prettiest (although watch Takase wander a mile off-side in the build-up), although Kyokawa is amazing in her two-footed shooting. I am also afraid that the L-league will just be another walkover for INAC this year.
  19. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    Yes, first video of Mami kicking a ball. Is she still recovering though? That is not very strenuous training.

    Speaking of injuries.... Iwashimizu introduces the dates of Nadeshiko League home games for Bereza - here .........and another video that seems to anticipate the start of the league is here - with Asano N looking very cute :D ..... what does the commentator say of various clubs' chances this year.....?
  20. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    AndG said that he would have had problems with internet connection until after Easter, but I can already hear a big, loud, "WADA WADA!" from him... :p

    Yeah, it looks like this girl could be an interesting player...

    Wow, this more complete video shows INAC had other chances, including a post hit by Kyokawa.

    About the off-side, it was not easy to decide actually; in the previous american video with a reversed angle (that I should watch again), it looked like US FW wasn't off-side, but watching this one I am really not sure. I tried to stop the video in the moment where the free kick starts, but it's not obvious if one of the INAC players in the center of the box (in particular #6 Minamiyama) is keeping the american player on-side or not (I tried to compare the positions judging by the distance from the line of the box: the american player looks more far, but you can't really tell if she's far enough to actually be off-side).
    All in all, a difficult call and, for sure, at least a late call (although the action was quite fast).
    What's your opinion, mumf?
  21. And G

    And G Member+

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    WADA, WADA!

    You have good ears, my friend Blissett! :D

    Sorry, I read everything, but don't have the time to write. So much interesting information on the last few pages, especially regarding the forwards' role.
    Please keep posting; I hope I can comment more in a week!

    Also, if someone able to translate Japanese could tell me what the main points of this paragraph are, that would be very very highly appreciated!

    今日の対戦チームはフランスリーグ2位というだけあって、スピード、技術、パス回しのすべてにおいてハイレベルだった。しかし、フェイントやファーストタッチで相手をかわしていける場面もあり、技術面では世界でも通用すると感じた。失点シーンでは、もっと予測と判断を速くして、守備の時のポジショニングを良くしていれば防げたと思う。自分たちよりも体格やスピードが勝る相手に対して、同守備をするかが今後の課題だと思うので、克服できるようにしていきたい。今日は勝ちきることが出来なかったので、残り2試合は内容と結果の両方にこだわって必ず勝って終わりたい。

    I read "world-class"...?
  22. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member

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    IMO 50/50 situation get the INAC side "home call" with this offside.
    Considering the goals, both the first and the second were equally beautiful, some good indiuvidual skills. I like most the thrid though. Outstanding team play. Not only INAC no.19 created a space with her run for Kawasumi pass but decived no.4 Sky B. defender into springing false offside trap on her which left Kyokawa clear path to goal.
  23. mumf

    mumf Member+

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    Well when I freeze the moment of contact, and make a line parallel to the PK box line, it looks like to me she is off-side. However, I am not sure if the rule requires 100% of the body to be off-side, and then it is less clear. But certainly now the Sky Blue coach should not have dismissed it as a bad call. If its a tough call with freeze-frame, then it was a tough call on the day.

    Hey AndG have you seen the Mami video posted last page?

    YT offers me this video..... at first nothing much, but then I spotted something bizarre. Just after 3:00 on the video there seem to be 100 fans of Japan at the World Cup (England game?) wearing the uniform too - EXCEPT they are some of those damn westerners ! Who ??? :confused: :confused:
  24. blissett

    blissett Member+

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    If Virany keeps reading us and posting here, I want to tell her to keep up the very good work! ^__^

    Meanwhile, I have to say to her that "fan service" is much appreciated. ;)

    Well, in fact I am not sure if INAC can really keep its clean sheet this season... I mean, they are stronger than ever, but it seems like the other top teams are really "ganging up" against them. I mean, the video with the interviews to Sakaguchi, Asano Nagasato, Yamago and Yano is called "Stop the INAC!" :D (and I agree with mumf that it would be very interesting to know what's been said in this video).
    What do you all think? You all agree with mumf that INAC will remain undefeated this season too, or there are clubs that can actually beat them?

    Yeah, the rule requires that the FW is entirely beyond the last DF to be off-side. That's why I am really not sure about Sky Blue's FW: it's really a borderline case that was probably resolved with a home call, as Lechus7 said. But I agree that, if we are still discussing it, it means that anyway, it was a legitimate and reasonable call.
    (by the way, Lechus7, you're right about the 3rd goal: I had noticed Nakajima's mouvement too and I admit all the action is great; it's really not easy at all to decide which one of INAC's goal was the best one).

    I guess that many of you could have noticed that a lot of the more recent videos (for instance quite all of the ones that Moukoko uploaded today) are from "INAC TV". Did INAC Kobe Leonessa always have a dedicated TV channel, or is it a recent feature? :confused:
    By the way, one of those "INAC TV" videos is an interview with Kinga and Ohno: I don't understand what does make them burst in laughing at the end of the video (Kinga's expression while she laughs is hilarious and also very pretty ^__^). Can anyone explain?
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naB06o49W3s&context=C4033f47ADvjVQa1PpcFP4Nin-mhg15djuC1oQHn9oZ2gBojeHDE4"]Ohno & Kinga Interview - YouTube[/ame]
  25. unepomme

    unepomme Member+

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    Today’s opponent, the second in the French League, was in a high level about everything – speeds, skills and passing abilities. But we were sometimes able to dodge them with fakes or trappings, so I felt our technical ability was effective in the world stage.

    I think we wouldn’t have given them the goals if we had better positions and were faster in prediction and judgment.



    I want to overcome the points remained to be solved, how we can defend against more speedy and physically stronger opponents.
    As we were unable to win this game, I want to surely get the wins of the last two matches, adhering to both our performances and results.

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