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Other Teams and MLS....stuff [R]

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by UPinSLC, Mar 6, 2011.

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  1. ...In my defense

    ...In my defense Moderator Staff Member

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    Mexican clubs have been using mostly reserve sides in the group stages, notably against MLS teams, and have had success. That doesn't mean they'll continue to do so as MLS has shown improvement, mostly based on RSL's form this year.

    Again, just because RSL is proving to be the most competitive MLS team in this competition in recent history, you still haven't proven anything.
     


  2. SALTLAKEJAKE

    SALTLAKEJAKE Member

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    I don't understand this at all. Why the hell would any team, in any competition, not take it seriously. Mexican sides lost agains MLS sides. That's the long and short of it. On the day, RSL won the group. No matter how you try you can't dismiss that. That is called PROVING something. It's proving that our coach is smarter than their coach, that our players are better than their players, that our fans are louder than theirs. Try and dismiss it all you want. It's in the books.

    Does that mean that definitvely we could compete? No. The ONLY way to know that is to win the CCL and play in the World Championships. But to say definitively that we couldn't is just as shortsighted.
     
  3. beaveman

    beaveman New Member

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    Must spread rep...

    Kind of interesting how this thread has changed from Ochocinco's SuKC tryout to Mexican League fans challenging who is better - RSL or Mexican clubs. Can't that be debated on the CCL thread instead? Or can't we just let the results on the field do the talking?
     
  4. ...In my defense

    ...In my defense Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually no, winning the CL over a Mexican club would prove something. Going to the Club WC and putting forth a decent performance would prove something.

    Winning a group is nice, and a step in the right direction for MLS but it doesn't mean anything if in the end, another Mexican team wins the competition.

    All you've got is bragging rights over Cruz Azul for winning your group.

    Consistency proves something. Winning a group doesn't prove your players are better than Cruz Azul's or any other team.
     


  5. beaveman

    beaveman New Member

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    Back to the Ochocinco drama...

    Found a few interesting articles/quotes.

    http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/25/2752327/chad-ochocinco-will-play-in-sporting.html
    So 85 will be at SuKC's reserve match on Monday. My bet is he starts on the bench and they bring him in around 75' or later. Nice way to get fans out to a reserve match! (see earlier Jordan AA baseball league stint)

    http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/24/2751280/ochocinco-looks-better-in-second.html
    http://www.kansascity.com/2011/03/24/2751427/thoughts-from-thursdays-training.html
    He improved from Wednesday to Thursday, even assisting on an 11 v 11 scrimmage goal.

    I'm starting to become a bit torn on this issue. If Ochocinco were to make it, even if just as a reserve, it could make the MLS look like a joke if someone that hasn't played in over 10 years could jump right in. However, it could also result in more young atheletes realizing that they aren't limited to just two choices - football and basketball - to make money with a professional sports career. A kid that could be a lightning fast cornerback in football might decide in high school to be a lightning fast winger or outside back instead. An increase of talent with great speed and agility could be a great plus for the future of the USMNT as well as the MLS.
     
  6. wyomango

    wyomango Member

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    Dude, 85 is nowhere near the level he would need to be at to make an MLS team. Even with KC. :) He even admits it.

    Even a blind squirrel has his day and sometimes it better to be lucky than a Spork.
     
  7. RSL Donk

    RSL Donk BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    Are you dissing the sporks? Sorry dude, but they are one of the coolest inventions ever.

    Ok here's the thing with Mexican teams and Mexican fans. They see the writing on the wall. Just as El Tri has been the USMNT's bitch for the last 15 years or so, Mexican club sides know the potential that MLS has. It did not take long for our national team to get competitive with Mexico (once American kids started really playing soccer on a large scale in the 1980s) and an even shorter time to become dominant.

    This is just the first step. I think that now that teams are becoming profitable and the sport is growing here, and the teams begin to really start developing talent, within a matter of years, Mexican soccer will no longer dominate North American club soccer. It, I believe, is really inevitable, given the money potential that American clubs have to develop and import talent.

    This is just the first indication. And yes, I do think RSL would at least qualify for the Clausura playoffs in Mexico. Look at it objectively, even though I know most Mexican fans are really incapable of doing that. Machismo or something.
     
  8. georg

    georg Member+

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    I like how this started as a discussion of how RSL would rank in the premire leagues of Europe and has now evolved into how RSL would fair in Mexico. Mexico yes mid table, EPL not a chance.
     
  9. ...In my defense

    ...In my defense Moderator Staff Member

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    So dominant in fact that you've never managed a win in Mexico.

    Being competitive is one thing, being dominant is something completely different. Seems like you're unable to tell the difference.

    Do you also wish upon a star every night?

    I love how naive people are.

    The world will stand still while MLS keeps improving. :rolleyes:

    LOL man....you are just full of cliches and assumptions.

    I do agree with you, to a certain extent. RSL has shown a tremendous ability to be competitive, will it be enough to win the entire thing? I don't know but RSL, to me, is the most capable MLS team in the history of CCL.
     
  10. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    I_Believe_In_Kreis Member+

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    The world may not...but Mexico just might. What has Mexico done on the international stage in the last 20 years? Be honest: do you think Mexican soccer is improving?

    Donk's point is that the U.S. has huge growth potential in the game. Mexico doesn't. Every kid in Mexico already plays soccer - not so in the U.S. So it's unlikely that Mexico will make drastic improvement. There's a lot more room for improvement in the U.S. And I think you're already starting to see it, and you'll see more of it in the future.
     
  11. RSL Donk

    RSL Donk BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    And my point is, in as soon as 10 years (my guess), the discussion will not be if MLS teams will compete in Mexico, but will be if Mexican teams even stand a chance against MLS. It is changing, and rapidly. Mexico is not improving and you all know it, while MLS is improving leaps and bounds every single year. It only took our national team about 10 years of steady attention (youth soccer in the US really started to take off in the 1980s) to not only become equal with El Tri, but to become dominant. Now that MLS clubs are just starting to see the fruits of their academy programs, it's only going to get better.

    Just watch, this year or next will finally see an MLS team win in Mexico. It is that close. Once the dam breaks, Mexico will not be able to hold back the flood.

    I shouldn't be surprised that Mexican fans are so defensive, I've been to more than one US vs. Mexico game. The Mexican fans sure don't want to admit that they are no longer the best team in North America, but then, look how many have learned to wear a United States jersey under their Mexican ones.

    One other thing I want to point out is how much i hate the people who think that MLS has to be just like every other league on earth. The real beauty of MLS is just how unique our fan culture is. It frankly amazes me. Sure we're not like the rest of the world, but I will argue that's not a bad thing. Fan cultures take time to grow, and we're now seeing that happen in the US. Sure we have influences from all over the world, but we are not 100% the same as the rest of the world. That's really cool to me. I can and should write a whole lot more on this, but right now I just don't have the time, so I'll leave this where it is and just sort of throw it out there.
     
  12. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL Member+

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    If you read the archives, you'll see that you lot have been saying this since at least 2002. Many said the "catch up" date will be 2007. Then when it didn't happen, they added 5 more years. And now you're adding more. How can we take you seriously if it's all talk, all the time from you guys since this website was conceived?
    The talent pool is being diluted with expansion. I think the league is hitting a plateau. No predictions can be made with certainty, especially recycled predictions that pop up here every year like clockwork, and fail every time.
    So what did the US Fed do from its inception until then? Twiddle their thumbs? The game has been being played here since the 1800s. It took the usa more than a century to catch up, but it hasn't "dominated for 15 years", as the other poster said. 1998 was within 15 years ago, a dark year for usa football. usa has 2002 and 2007 while Mexico has 2003, 2006 and 2009. Friendlies mean fuk-all. It's been even since 2002, and Mexi-dominated before then.

    Really, there shouldn't be any bragging until this CCL is done. Blue Cross has always taken the Group Stage lightly. They also came in 2nd in 2008, yet were a finalist in that tourney, finishing 2 steps past the group winner, Marathon.
     
  13. QuibblingNonesuch

    QuibblingNonesuch Member+

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    Once Mexico can throw off the virtual feudalist legacy of their Spanish colonial overlords, they'll have a big renaissance - culturally, economically, democratically.

    It'll be cyclical for a while yet, between the US and Mexico.

    A significant portion of our lineup is hispanic anyway...that's part of the story as well.
     
  14. Boz

    Boz Grouch.

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    Red Bulls U-18 Academy Team train with Argentina:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D47LdQ1NVk&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - EXTENDED: Red Bulls U18s train with Argentina National Team[/ame]

    Opportunity of a lifetime...
     
  15. ...In my defense

    ...In my defense Moderator Staff Member

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    What has Mexico done in the past 20 years?

    Reached the final of Copa America on it's first invite.
    Won the Confederations Cup in 99.
    Became the one and only CONCACAF team to ever be seeded at a WC.
    One of a handful of national teams that have displayed consistency in the World Cup by moving out of the first round in the last five WCs, winning groups over Italy twice and losing first place in the group against Holland on goal differential.
    The only CONCACAF team to win a youth WC.

    None of which the US has accomplished in the last twenty years.

    I can keep going if you'd like.

    Obviously our barometer for success will be the same at one point since we're both from the same confederation but as of now, anything is considered positive on your end given where you started from. It's just sad that some fans are unable to tell difference between consistency and dominance.

    Of course the US has huge growth potential, especially once you look at your starting point.

    I'd like to know where you're getting the impression that Mexico has no room for improvement? Again, this mentality that the world will stand still while MLS improves is pure American naivette.

    The US (or MLS teams) have yet to display the consistency Mexico has on the international stage and that consistency takes a long time to acquire, not a couple of washed up ex European stars coming to your league or a couple lucky breaks in knockout tournaments.

    You haven't even won a game in Mexico for cryin' out loud, club or international. You might want to do that first before you thump your chest spouting your utopian growth theories.
     
  16. elkaholic

    elkaholic Member

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    Wow...I had no idea that Mexico was so dominant over the US. Maybe we should all just move down there now so we can be in such great company. :rolleyes:

    On another note - one that I think this thread is supposed to be about - Seattle now has 1 goal in 3 games, and hasn't won a game yet. Gives me the warm fuzzies.
     
  17. pate

    pate Member

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  18. canyonvue

    canyonvue Member

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    Person above...bug off.
     
  19. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    This just in...Timbers are going to be awful this year.
     
  20. pate

    pate Member

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    Just in? You get your news off the slow boat, don't you? ;)
     
  21. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

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    ugh. frustrating stuff to say the least. to watch the timbers and then watch real salt lake....its like watching a high school team and then watching barcelona. they play like RSL circa 2005-2007, makes me want to punch a baby. i dont know how any coach can actually coach a team to play like this, i would beat it out of them every day in practice.
     
  22. Blitzz Supporter

    Blitzz Supporter Member

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    When they took Horst in the expansion draft, I thought, Are you serious! I thought Schuler or Warner was gone for sure. Are we sure that Ellinger and Pastorino aren't behind Portland's roster. At least they'll compete with Seattle. :rolleyes:
     
  23. neophyte

    neophyte Member

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    Salt Lake City
    I suffered through Seattle- Houston 2nd half last night. A couple of thoughts:

    -- soccer truly is not made to be played on a bouncy artificial surface. I used to hate it when everyone said that to us when we played at RES, but it is the plain and simple truth. Ugly surface = Ugly soccer.

    -- lack of ideas, lack of finishing. A lot of vertical movement but very little lateral or (gasp) diagonal movement.

    -- Ching is slow and old.

    -- Houston still plays dirty

    I think that covers it. can't wait for the Real Thing tonight at RioT.
     
  24. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Member+

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    I want to stay humble...

    but if LA is supposed to be one of the best teams in the league and we did what we just did to them... maybe those mexican fans are right for the rest of the league, but not us.
     
  25. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT BigSoccer Supporter

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    One game does not a season make... but it was a sweet win. Both teams missing some important pieces, but our missing pieces seemed to make much less difference. Depth and consistency, interchangeable parts of a cohesive team, awesome!
     
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