*OUR* best 11?

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by local136RiverRat, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. local136RiverRat

    local136RiverRat Member

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    Who is our best 11 and what formation would allow us to have them on the field at the same time?

    McMath
    Williams Valdes Parke/Soumare? Garfan
    Okugo
    Marfan Adu? Cruz?
    Letoux Casey


  2. nhlman10

    nhlman10 Member

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    MacMath
    Williams Valdes Okugo Gaddis
    Torres Adu Garfan Le Toux
    Mac Casey

    this might not be the best 11, it might be the right 11
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  3. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    Our*

    MacMath
    Gaddis Park Valdes Williams
    Okugo
    Marfan Garfan
    Adu
    Jack Mac Casey
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  4. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    I agree with all except JackMac/Casey over Le Toux. Le Toux will/should start over one of them. Also I would through Soumare in the mix with Parke just because he 'may' be better if healthy. I like the Farfans on the outside and think it could work well. Williams at LB is really the main question mark as he is a very good RB and seemed ok at LB in the few appearances there. Him moving to LB would allow Gaddis to get time which I think he deserved. As always Adu should be our best option at CAM but he has to earn it.


  5. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

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    If we are going strictly best XI on the roster, Carroll belongs on the field in any formation, but that covers Okugo who I believe is also best XI. I think a healthy Casey or Soumare are also arguably in our best XI but neither have shown their best stuff in more than a calendar year. Right now, I don't know that we have a formation that gets our best players on the field and favors attacking soccer. I don't think our personnel really match what we are trying to do on the pitch according to Hackworth.
  6. Billy Zabka

    Billy Zabka Member

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    This. Our best XI is a *shudder* empty bucket since Valdes, Parke, Okugo and Carroll are all safely amongst the best XI players on the team
  7. UnionTillIDie

    UnionTillIDie Member

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    What's wrong with an empty bucket if we have the right personal to play it?

    IMO, having Okugo and Carrol in the middle with Marfan and Adu on the wings coming inside while the wingbacks attack the flanks is not "ugly soccer." Especially now that we have a decent group of forwards in being able to both stretch the defense or play into a holding forward.

    Our problem last time we played the "empty bucket" was that our idiot of a coach, Nowak, decided to bypass the midfield all together and we just would kick the ball to no one time after time hoping that the other team would make a mistake and we could counter.
  8. LuckyStriker

    LuckyStriker Member+

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    They've been headed back to bucket all along, but they still don't have the personnel to complete the product. Adu can only hope to play CAM effectively in this league......but I think he's gone soon-so it's moot.

    DM is the strength of this roster. They will play.
    Many of the outside MF's are role relegated strictly to this formation on talent O/D depending on game situations. Which is why I've said any other formation outside of an occasional 4-5-1 would require Philly to spend serious money blowing up what they've already contracted at that spot on the pitch. Hence; a virtual impossibility.

    There remain starting needs at a minimum of 2 more spots, and depth up top and in the back is still at issue. If the Union do anything to improve from here going forward, I'd expect those (only) the areas remaining to address.
  9. ImissTHEheat

    ImissTHEheat Member

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    Adu does not succeed on the left wing and his minimal commitment to defense will leave the adventurous Gabe Farfan naked while he tries to provide the width missing from the 4-2-2-2 formation. I'd rather see G. Farfan in that role and put a true wingback behind him.

    The pairing of Okugo and Carroll in the middle of the pitch seems like where we are heading regardless and I will continue to contend that the Union need another left sided player to make that realistic. Even when Justin Mapp filled that spot he drove to the end line, cut inside, and worked the overlapping run with the fullback. He was one footed most of the time by his own preference but he filled the role as well as anybody else in a Union kit has.

    A 4-2-2-2 with Okugo and Carroll in the middle will put an awful lot of pressue on Okugo to link play to the attacking third. The 4-2-2-2 itself may not be pretty, but watching Okugo develop into that role would be an interesting focal point in itself.
  10. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

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    Will, yes, but Le Toux has a long way to go to show he SHOULD start over them. Casey has the history, and Jack Mac has the potential. Le Toux has one good productive season over his entire career, and 20k people who hate Nowak behind him. That's about it.
  11. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    Both his seasons here were productive, notching double digit goals both years and racking up assists as well. What has JacMac shown that he deserves to start over Le Toux or Casey? While I believe the starting position needs to be earned by the best player(s) I don't see Jack beating out Seba while Casey he might be able to.
  12. UnionTillIDie

    UnionTillIDie Member

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    I agree that Adu defense would be suspect but the kid can do well if he is allowed to whip balls into the box and actually has someone on the end of it to finish. Plus in a 4-2-2-2, you can allow one of the two DM to cover for the side the ball is advancing on. That is Carroll's true strength; defending and covering while others advance.

    If the Union FO decide to sell Adu and place Garfan there while bringing in a more reliable LB, good for us. But Adu can be that player we want out wide if, and that's a big IF, he has someone on the end of his crosses that's finishing and allowed to not have to track back on defense by having someone cover his runs.
  13. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

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    Jack beats Casey out if injuries are still an issue for him. Seba did some top notch McNabb stat-padding his second season here. He didn't score from the run of play until September. 4/11 of his goals were PKs. That's a starting forward who scored only 7 goals from the run of play the entire season, crammed into about 6 weeks of a 34 week season. Jack scored 8 last season, no pks, and not earning real playing time until halfway through the season..

    Le Toux is also coming off a season where he was traded twice, scored a whopping 5 goals(and 2 oh-so-precious assists), and was more or less ineffective for both clubs he played for over a combined 33 matches.

    You guys can be romantic dreamers all you want, but when you look at the numbers, he's on a decline that for any other player we would all be questioning the FO for what the heck they're smoking, and where to get some.
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  14. Handsome Pete

    Handsome Pete Member+

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    Cruz has no business on any list.
  15. Dills

    Dills Moderator Staff Member

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    It's only an empty bucket on paper. The wingers we use - be they Adu, M Farfan, Daniel - all tend to drift inside anyway. Sure, there might be 4 midfielders on the field at any given time, but IMO it plays more like a 4-2-2-2 and clears the lanes for Williams and the LB (G Farfan, or whomever) to bomb up the wings.

    Casey - Le Toux​
    Adu - M Farfan​
    Carroll - Okugo​
    New LB - Valdes - Parke - Williams​
    MacMath​
    He also had pretty shitty stats before being picked up in the expansion draft. Plus, you can't say your man-crush ever scored from the run of play because he never really did a whole helluva lot of running in the first place. :whistling:
  16. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC I Hate Freedom

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    If Le Toux is not one of the best eleven players on this team, then I would love to know what eleven players unseat him. He's not the best, but on this squadron of spitfires, he ain't in the worst category.
  17. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

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    So let's play him at Left Back?
  18. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    There's not 11 players better than him, but their are two strikers better than him, costing him his spot. Considering how similar Jack and Seba play, I would much rather play Jack over Seba. One is young and showed huge flashes last, and the other is a journeyman with one good year. Logic dictates you play the striker actually capable of getting better. On a side note, the Seba move makes no sense other than to put butts in the seat. It seems like a waste of 200k.
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  19. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC I Hate Freedom

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    Just out of curiosity, who has scored more goals in their seasons with the Union with the exact same supporting cast: McInerney or Le Toux? We're not talking about potential or anything like that. Apples to apples, using their numbers, who is the superior player? If you removed their names, and just said striker A and striker B, and striker A had McInerney's numbers and striker B had Le Toux' numbers, who would you rather have? I wasn't advocating for bringing Le Toux back here. I still don't know if it's a good move, but you can't just dismiss what one player accomplished while he was here.
  20. ajrangers1

    ajrangers1 Member

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    Jackie Mac played real well in the U20's 4-3-3 at a winger position, I would say that is where he would play in Hacks system.

    aaaaMacMath​
    Garfan Parke Valdes Williams
    OkugoaaaaaaCarroll​
    aaaAdu/Marfan​
    Le TouxaaaaaaaaaaMcInerney
    aaaaaaaaaaCasey
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  21. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

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    I would see a player whose numbers are falling against a player whose numbers are rising, and pick the latter.
  22. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    I would rather play Seba over Jack. Seba does more on the pitch than Jack does. Jack may have a higher ceiling than Seba but he hasn't reached a point where he is a better forward than Seba. To me, Seba gives us a better chance to win. You will discount Seba's 4 PK goals two years ago and say he only put 7 in from the run of play and you also discount his assists. In Seba's two good years here he had a total of 25 goals and 20 assists in 5580 min 14/11/2520 in 10 11/9/3060 in 11. Those are two decent years. Jack has career numbers of 12/3/2538. Also Jack has received 6 yellow and 2 red cards in his time. Seba has not been carded once in MLS. Sure Seba didn't play great last year but he also didn't play well with Seattle the year before we took him, the key thing with both those seasons is he wasn't used frequently as a forward. Seba will be 29 and Jack doesn't turn 21 until August so Jack has a lot more time to mature as a player and I think he has a chance to be a fine one where as Seba is hitting the peak of his career.
  23. EmeraldDawn

    EmeraldDawn Member+

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    The only change I would make is that Garfan should be replaced with Gaddis.
  24. Dills

    Dills Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with what you're saying, because the stats don't lie. However, J-Mac and Seba are not the same kind of player so to say that one is better than the other is like comparing Golden Delicious apples to Gala apples ... or Jesus Christ to the Almighty Cheese Fries.
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  25. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

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    Going by strictly our best 11 players, and getting them all on the field at once? Nobody is going to like this, and I'm not sure our band of players could make this formation work, but it does get them all on the field.
    3-4-3

    [​IMG]

    or how about a 3-4-1-2?

    [​IMG]
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