Peter Vermes...the next prodigy?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by The Foo Fighter, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. The Foo Fighter

    The Foo Fighter Member+

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    We had a thread about Jason Kreis for the longest time, so I felt it was only deserving that we have a thread about Peter too. To get some of the thoughts our there, and get a good discussion going.

    Just some information:
    -KC has adopted the -4-3-3 with great success
    -They have a fluid attack and strong defense, using the players at his disposal to the greatest effect
    -They are 7-0-0 beating many of the teams viewed as favorites ie RSL and LAG
    -He played for the national team
    -KC just plain plays good soccer. They are fluid in their attacks and look alot like Jason's RSL from last year.

    What are your thoughts on the future for Peter Vermes and his possible involvement with the National Team program?


  2. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti BigSoccer Supporter

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    I'm not liking where this is going.
    I just hope he isn't another Caleb Porter.
  3. joe cleats

    joe cleats Member

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    Porter never coached a professional team, although I hope he gets the chance in the future. One bad tournament shouldn't mean he's reserved to NCAA for his entire career.

    Vermes is in his third full season with Sporting. I haven't watched them play yet this season, but 7-0 is a darn good record. He's doing this with a plethora of fringe national team players as well. Not bad and more eyes will turn towards him if the good form continues and they win MLS Cup.

    There are a good number of coaches who should be considered for the national team helm after WC2014. Kreis, Kinnear, and now possibly Vermes. There are others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
  4. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    He seems to know how to identify the right players fora system.

    If he puts in a few more good seasons I think he has a shot.

    Honestly, when we have all our best players ever(fingers crossed) in 2018 I would like a brain trust of more than one good MLS coach (Kries). Two or three all helping coach the national team.


  5. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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  6. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

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    There may be those reading too young or too new to the game to remember that Vermes had a 14 year professional career in Europe and MLS along with 67 caps with the US National Team (including the 1990 World Cup and almost the 1998 WC as well)...

    Caleb Porter Redux this is not.
  7. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

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    So the board consensus is that Klinsmann steps down after 2014?
  8. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    From the main position as head coach? I hope so. Then again the high profile he has may prevent this.

    2 cycle coaches not good, even if said coach did a great job.
  9. morange92

    morange92 Member

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    i mean typically coaches only last through a cycle, occasionally 2 but that typically the 2nd cycle doesn't go very well.

    I think Klinsmann will be around the USMNT program for a long time, but i doubt most of that time will be coaching the senior NT.

    I think we see him at least through the 2014 WC, and if he does well he'll probably get to have another cycle like bruce arena did.

    As for 2018 having our best players ever, i sure hope so. I am a bit worried though... i mean dempsey, howard and donovan have been the heart and soul of the team for so long, i am curious who will succeed those guys in the star role.
  10. dsirias

    dsirias Member

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    Whoa. Hold your horse Lets talk after Vermes wins MLS cup and takes his team to champions league final

    Vermes had a vision. He saw that an aggressive 6 high press with 3 front line attackers to release could cause typical MLS d-mids and mids a serious problem
    He was right But he had to find the right personnel. He's almost complete
    (Plan got thrown a wrench when it turned out bunbury has no soccer brain or first touch ) And even though the personnel is not complete it's working as intended

    That being said I don't want his system for thè national team.
    International competition will have skill level players that can evade thè press and punish with all the vacant space left behind the high pressure

    He wants barcelona press but with real Madrid high tempo
    We ain't good enough to pull it off internationally against good teams. Because against good teams you have to possess sometimes and hold the fort sometimes
    Jason Kreis has been trying to build more of the true possession team I'm with him at this point
  11. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

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    Jason Kreis has his team playing some fluid technical soccer. His team has won an MLS Cup and was a runner up in the CONCACAF Champions League. Vermes has no resume compared to that.
  12. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

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    Yet.

    Vermes may never win any trophies, but Kreis, unbelievable as it seems to say this, has been a head coach in MLS more than two years longer than Vermes.

    Give Vermes a couple more seasons to see if he can win some hardware.

    It should also be pointed out that for all his regular season success and talk of his fluid style, Kreis has only won one trophy. He's never won the Open Cup, he's never won the Shield and he's never been back to MLS Cup after that great run in 09.

    Now, I think Vermes and Kreis are both very good MLS coaches and both should be considered for the next national team coach. Personally, I'd like to see the USSF give it to the guy with the most trophies as head coach! (Non-Bruce Arena division, of course.)

    I also won't be at all surprised if Jurgen Klinsmann signs on for another cycle after Brazil.
  13. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

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    I will give him a couple years. Until then he is not in the same stratosphere as Kreis in my book.
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Stratosphere?

    I love Jason Kreis..................but let's not go crazy.

    As Sandon has said, Kreis has won one trophy. That was after his club finished with more losses than wins in the 2009 regular season. They scraped into the playoffs on goal difference over terrible Colorado AND DC teams...............then beat Chicago and LA on penalties to lift the cup. Yeehaw for abject mediocrity!!!! I have a group friends that meet to discuss the league every week at a bar, and we were unanimous that the 2009 RSL team was the worst team to ever win MLS Cup. They had more losses than wins!!!! They were 7 points worse than an expansion team that year (Seattle).

    I understand that Kreis is ahead of Vermes on the USMNT-candidate list, but he still has a lot to prove himself.
  15. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

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    1) He passes the eye test. His teams play pretty football.
    2) HE has won an MLS Cup. Believe me as a Fire fan I know how close it was but His team still got the job done.
    3) His team Played VERY well internationally in the CONCACAF Champions League. They were a couple bounces of the ball away from making it to a Club World Cup,

    Sportingwizwizards are a good team that really has accomplished absolutely nothing. Of course people are asking me to wait a couple of years to win championships but I really don't think the team's play is pretty to look at either. I personally don't want him anywhere near the US set up. Just my opinion.
  16. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

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    I tend to agree with this. I also think Vermes current style fits the American talent pool better than the highly technical RSL style as things sit. We have the players to play a high tempo physical pressing style. SKC wins are sometimes a bit ugly. Don't get me wrong, I like Kreis, and think he's a very good young coach. Both are.
  17. Roger Allaway

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    Wouldn't he have to be a bit younger to be that, or to be a prodigy?
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    The biggest trick MLS ever pulled was convincing the masses that RLS' run to to the CCL final was somehow special.

    RSL did the same thing many other MLS clubs have done in the CCL. They qualified for the knockout stages, and lost to the first Mexican club they encountered!!! It was no different than Houston's runs in that competition under Kinnear, no different than the Crew's good run in that competition under Sigi, and on and on.

    Listen, I'm a Kreis fan as I'm an FCD guy. But he has a lot more to prove as well.
  19. Clenbuterol

    Clenbuterol Red Card

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    I am a Kinnear fan myself but just can't brush off RSL's accomplishments as if they were meaningless. They won hardware and that is how it is calculated in the Statistics. They finished runners up to a very good Monterrey team in the CONCACAF. That is how it will be remembered. They play Aesthetically pleasing soccer in my opinion which is my initial point. All those things together make him head and shoulders above Vermes who is still in the early stages of his career.
  20. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

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    In terms of sustaining good results over the long haul, I'd rank MLS coaches:

    1. Dom Kinnear
    2. Bruce Arena
    3. Jason Kreis

    Kreis is moving up, but doesn't have the resume of the top two.

    KC Soccer is US Youth Soccer realized. Hi press. Force turnovers. Counter with athletes. I'm not a fan.
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Gotta put Sigi in there...................
  22. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    In terms of what's been done over the past 6-7 years.

    1. Jason Kreis-MLS Cup, CCL Vice Champion
    2. Dom Kinnear-2x MLS Cup, MLS Cup Vice Champion, Super Liga Vice Champion
    3. Thierry Henry- 3xFA Cup, UEFA Champions League, FIFA Club World Cup, FIFA World Cup, FIFA World Cup Vice Champion, UEFA Euro :)

    Place more emphasis on Cups as the World Cup, Gold Cup, Confederations Cup are knock out tourneys. US Open Cup is too low of level and many MLS teams don't emphasize it. Last 6-7 years because that's a bit more relevant especially given the changing nature of the league.

    Being a bit cheeky with Henry of course. He reportedly has significant input in how the team prepares and is certainly a coach on the field and in the interviews. NYRB play beautiful and at times devastatingly effective football with a midfield/forward lineup that includes. 1 Jamaican and 2 Americans, and a Morroacan. Don't know what Henry's post playing career ambitions are, but if NYRB were to win a league title that would be a recommendation.

    With respect to Nutmeg's comments on Vermes I'd ask if it's a matter of Vermes doing what works or doing what he only knows. I agree KC's methods are rudimentary compared to those of RSL and NYRB.
  23. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti BigSoccer Supporter

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    He lost a game which his team played crap on, can we move on now?
  24. furby

    furby Member

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    The RSL run was a bit different. They were lucky in the draw that year to be able to reach the final without playing a Mexican opponent.

    They did win a group that had a mexican team in it, placing ahead of cruz azul in the group stage.

    They beat cruz azul at home 3-1 while losing away 5-4 on an injury time goal (after scoring an injury time equalizer).

    They played the first leg of the final in mexico and pulled off a 2-2 draw away.

    That was when the real excitement started. For a lead-in week, all the talk was about the excellent chance RSL had going into the game with 2 away goals along with the draw. Also if I remember at the time RSL had not lost at home in 20+ games.

    But in all honesty the final was never really in doubt as cruz azul was in control most of the game and limited rsl to long balls into the box, which wasn't really their game.

    That being said, for all those reasons RSL was definitely the most exciting run in CCL and a goal against the run of play in the second half at home would have given them the tournament. No one else has ever been that close, and I don't think any other MLS game has ever had that kind of anticipation.
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Personally I think Houston performed just as well in the CCL knockout rounds (the series against Pachuca stands out), the Crew performed just as well in the CCL knockout rounds (they had a really good series against Toluca), etc.

    All those contests were simply in the quarters or semis..........rather than the final.

    I like Kreis. I like Vermes. Hell, I like Sigi and Kinnear.

    But I actually sense that the USSF is now willing to shell out the big bucks for a USMNT coach. THat means that we're going to have some accomplished Euro and South American coaches interested in the gig when Klinsmann leaves. It's gonna be tough to select a guy like Vermes over somebody like ( I don't know, I'll pick a name out of a hat) Scolari.

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