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Practical Libertarianism

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    I'd threatened to start a thread like this, and here it is. ;)

    One of the inefficiencies in modern US politics that libertarianism is delightfully positioned, intellectually, to oppose is overregulation of trades that shouldn't be regulated. It's one thing to oppose licensing of surgeons because you're a libertarian. Whether you are right or wrong, you're not going to win that argument.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-government/changes-to-licensing-proposed-1356959.html

    This isn't, IMO, a great bill. It's barely a good bill. But if a central bureaucracy takes over the licensing of stuff that shouldn't be licensed anyway, at least there will be less regulatory capture. Go to your state's website and look at who is on the various boards licensing barbers. It's gonna be other barbers. Nobody there speaks for consumers.

    Read to the end...why are we licensing interior designers anyway?

    Next up...parking requirements!
     


  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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    Doctors with college degrees are overrated, the government and their "licensing" programs keep lots of good witch doctors from practicing their craft.

    Why should a polish dentist (or not a dentist) have to run his office in his garage and have to worry about the police finding out?
     
  3. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

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    funny - missed the word "witch" the first time

    I thought this was one of those terms like Military Intelligence or Jumbo Shrimp or Effective Management
     
  4. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    Hey you guys want to see practical libertarianism...Ron Paul has been helping Mitt Romney win in Michigan. That dude wants his son to be Vice President more than anybody in modern history.

    Heh, heh...the redneck white supremacist is helping out the blue-blood Mormon. This couldn't get any weirder.
     


  5. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth Red Card

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    Because they have successfully lobbied state legislators with liquor and blowjobs, that they can perform a certain amount of interior renovation work that previously required an Architect.

    Most of what they do isn't that complex and I think they wanted to separate out the interior decorators from the work that they perform, but, as they've discovered, there is a lot of work beyond most of their education and experience that they shouldn't be doing and the exam is mostly testing their knowledge of knowing when they should consult various other disciplines such as Architects, Structural/Mechanical/Electrical engineers and the like.

    Now that they've convinced people they can to Matt in the Hat's job, without all the pretentiousness, but twice the cleavage, they need to know when to make sure the electrical system will carry all the high end light fixtures they think a room needs.

    Well that and then need to know what bearing walls and columns are for and that they're not "things that can be moved easily".
     
  6. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    ID's are allergic to Comcheck.

    Seriously, what was wrong with the old system where you had an AOR on every project?
     
  7. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    I'll make a generality about libertarianism: Social libertarianism is right, and if you disagree, most likely you're also stupid. Economic libertarianism is right to the extent that the market is capable of regulating an industry. The market is not good at regulating necessities, because choice is definitionally taken away. The same goes with libertarian attitudes towards drugs - regulation can be removed from non-addictive drugs. Addictive drugs limit an individual's ability to choose her behavior, and therefore should be regulated.
     
  8. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    If we accounted for the unlucky lottery in food, housing and medicine and reclassified addictive drugs from illegal to regulated I would say that the day is won.

    Libertarianism needs to give up on the belief that goverment is never the answer and start demanding that it works properly to ensure maximum individual liberties. There needs to be a challenge when you have two collectivist parties currently running the show with no signs of slowing down their power concentration.

    One final note about the current licensing systems in place today. It basically prevents the next DaVinci or Jefferson from ever coming into being and that is a bad thing. It also is discriminatory against the less well off and people who choose to have families over persuing education. In fact formal education shouldn't even be manditory but credit should be given for degrees. A nurse should totally be able to work their way up to neurosurgeon via hard work and experience.
     
  9. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth Red Card

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    Seems like a lot of people think they're cousin the drafter (unemployed) can knock out a set of plans just as good as any old Architect, any day of the week for a lot cheaper.

    That and this whole "exempted" building list grows every couple of years as to what any assclown can get designed w/o an Architect, mostly due to the work of the AIBD and developers/residential & light commercial contractors/Metal Building companies
     
  10. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    My sister is an ID, graduated at the top of her masters degree class from one of the best schools. I would barely let her pick out a couch for me, much less anything requiring technical knowledge.
     
  11. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    I’m just glad the SuperDave and the government is licensing the immigrant woman that cuts my hair, God forbid I got a bad haircut.
     
  12. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator Staff Member

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    Was I the only one who did a spit take on this?
     
    Deep Wilcox repped this.
  13. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth Red Card

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    I'm used to Matt. Nothing he says is shocking anymore.
     
  14. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought that was the case for me too, but holy crap, was that amazing.
     
  15. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    Why is this so shocking? Do you think nurses aren't capable of becoming doctors or do you think that six figures of debt is the only appropriate avenue?
     
  16. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    I have to agree with Matt - name one nurse that can't do most of what a doctor does, and most of the time s/he do it better than the doctor. Doctors have been elevated to this platform of reification that policemen and small business owners only wish they had.
     
  17. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    There are some pretty fantastic nurses out there and some pretty shitty doctors. Between my business and my wife being a doc, I know hundreds of both nurses and docs. There are avenues for nurses to advance pretty far these days, but a small minority have any business doing it. Asking to name one nurse is asking to provide the exception to the rule. Because of the size of the healthcare system, one can find quite a few exceptions...but it's still the rule.
     
  18. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    And if those exceptions are able to excel our society is better for it.

    But that's not the case. For some reason a nurse doing a 5 year apprenticeship with the cheif surgeon is not good enough but a person with a ton of education and one year of practical residency is. That's bonkers.

    Our current system discriminates aginst the poor, minorities, women and people who have families. A real liberal party would be all over this issue but the Democrats are in the pockets of big education. And that's too bad.
     
  19. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    One year of practical residency does not make a med school grad a neurosurgeon. Not by a long shot.
     
  20. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    You get my point.
     
  21. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    I decided to respond to the other parts.

    In some respects, I agree. The exceptional nurses should be able to excel. In some respects, they are. There are all kinds of paths available, some that usually require more education and some that don't. I wouldn't have a problem allowing nurses (or anyone else) to take medical board exams and apply for the residency match.

    The bottom line is that you're right in essence, the system does discriminate. The legal and medical fields have been allowed self regulation to a great degree. As it concerns education generally, the legal system has been failing for a couple decades. Recently the med school system has become silly. It's possible that the rise of the osteopathic med schools are going to change some of that, but it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Between my wife and I, we spent 500k on post graduate education, not to mention the years involved. With college, we're getting closer to 700k. Those numbers don't encourage the best and brightest to be the ones slicing and dicing your brain.
     
  22. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

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    If a nurse who has apprenticed for any number of years wants to take the board exams, go through the residency match, and do the six or seven years of training afterwards (probably at a large pay cut from what the nurse was making beforehand), I have no problem with it. Most med students have already been rotating for two years prior to that 7 year residency. A family medicine residency now is usually 3 years.
     
  23. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    I gotta disagree with Matt here - if not for Affirmative Action, we wouldn't have any minority or female doctors and PhDs. Although the trends are not moving quickly, they are moving toward representative parity.
     
  24. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Our two statements don't exclude each other.
     
  25. American Brummie

    American Brummie Member+

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    Affirmative Action is a policy promoted by the Democrats. AA is the primary reason for ethnic and sex-based diversity in many fields today. Thus the Democrats prop up a policy that tries to stem the tide of discrimination from the dominant ethnic and sexual hegemon. So why are the Democrats not receptive to ending discrimination?
     

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