Puerto Rico statehood

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by BrodieQPR, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. BrodieQPR

    BrodieQPR Member

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    not according to any report I've seen, they all say it's a three option second referendum

    http://noticias.univision.com/ameri.../puerto-rico-referendum-estatus#axzz1lfE6g2k3

    You're out of touch if you think Congress would strike down the people of Puerto Rico if they vote to join the union. Statehood has broad bi-partisan support here... every President since Reagan has publicly supported it. It's only in your head that we want to deny the people of PR their democratic right to representation.

    And we're so, so, so far off topic here. Let's call this a day.


  2. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    A referendum that is not backed by US congress doesnt have any power to pressure the US to do anything. All referendums that have been done in PR are non-binding so the US has to do nothing. If they really supported the right of PR and its people to self determination why they dont support a UN backed referendum that will end our colony status once and for all. They dont because they dont care or want to, all they want is to keep control of the island for obvious reason but without having to annex us to the US. You need to do some more researching regarding PR and its status. Millions over the hundred years that we have been a colony of the US have been killed, jailed and persecuted just because they voiced their opinions on wanting independence. The US like every other world power only cares about their own interests and many times in the name of freedom commit plenty of atrocities.
  3. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    No they wont. If it's a choice of either independence or statehood, most people would probably switch as most puertorricans are scared of independence. That being said I agree with your point and think BrodieQPR is really understating the "will of the people". If statehood wins (which I doubt) they will barely squeak by. If will be a 50% to 49% stuff if anything. I would love for statehood supporters to go by with that great mandate of the will of the people. And I will love how after losing referendum after referendum, for them to go and say this is the good one with a squeak by victory. And as if the rest of the 49% are just going to let that go with so a life changing historical situation (the PNP strategy of when they finally win one, to say this one is the one that counts).
  4. BrodieQPR

    BrodieQPR Member

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    my comment about the will of the people was only in regard to the majority categorically rejecting independence at every opportunity, I don't believe statehood will ever happen.

    to your later point, that is how these things work unfortunately. It'd be the same if independence won one.


  5. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    I don't know if that is what things work. I really don't know if people are going to allow somebody changing if there is not an clearly superior majority. When only half the people want something (because statehood may win compared to the status quo but if you add independism, it will probably result in half of the people not wanting statehood) and you have a colony that is barely assimilated as a candidate, it's not that clear that it will happen especially because the other half isn't going to take it lying down.
  6. zhe fulano

    zhe fulano Member

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    Puertorricane (part Puerto Rico, part Miami Hurricane?) has a valid point. I suspect few off the island know anything about Albizu Campos, las gorras negras, Luis Munoz Marin, the special tax exemption the IRS code provides for businesses in Puerto Rico or using Vieques for bombing practice. The decision should be left completely to the people of Puerto Rico.

    Their home. Their culture. Their sacrifices. Their decision.
  7. FW__

    FW__ Member+

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    That's France. If PR becomes a state, I have to believe it's going to be a state, just like all other states, and thus, forfeit their FIFA and Olympic status.
  8. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    For the last time we can have 20 to 40 referendums all could be won by statehood with a majority of 70% and still unless that referendum has the legal backing of the US congress and the UN decolonization committee it wont change a thing. The US can say that day we heard you we understand you but we are not looking for another state in the union right now. In fact we will give you your independence. Those wins will give statehood seeker some political power to pressure the president and congress but the muscle of the PR people without the international community is not strong enough to take on the US. We need the UN, and the international community to label the island a colony and pressure the US.

    Independence is a lot easier to get because in the case of independence every vote counts. If 50% vote for statehood is looked at as just 2million people half the population. If 50% were to vote for independence that would send a big message throughout the world and through the halls of washington.

    And to finish yes many puerto ricans are afraid of independence, because for more than 600yrs we've been a colony, we been told that we are too small, not good enough to run our own country. US have persecuted and arrested anybody that was thought to even have a little incline towards independence for the first 90yrs of colonialism.
    But like the great Ruben Berrios saids numbers change all the time in the 30s we had the international backing but not the votes, in the 50s we had the votes but not the backing from the international community. Today we might get the backing of the international community but not the local votes in a referendum.

    It took one mistake from the US navy that killed david sanes and in less than a week the entire island was in viques asking for the US to leave. It took one bullet from the FBI that killed filibert ojeda rios that united all the political independence parties that hated eachother and now wanted to work together. It only takes one action that the people feel are abused or whatever and everything changes. Look at how in egypt in a few months they took down a president.
    att.
    The
    []__[]
  9. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    Who cares who said what or why it is and this or that but that is the situation and the truth is people are afraid of independence and it's not magically going to change like the Vieques thing.
  10. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    did the vieques thing changed magically.. why wouldnt it change for the rest of the country
  11. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    Because there is a big difference from having to get rid of a military base than deciding the future of your country. The majority of the people in PR didn't feel their livelihood or their well being was at risk with the Vieques thing but they do about the political state. It's 2 different things.
  12. puertorricane

    puertorricane Red Card

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    OK hernandez colon, i guess you love being colonized, you are one of those that feel without the mighty americans we will starve to death
  13. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

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    Time for a moderator to step in? This thread is WAY off topic.
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

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    I just don't care.
  15. FW__

    FW__ Member+

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    First, don't really know why you quoted me. I'm not arguing that PR will become a state, I'm just saying what would have happen if they ever did. Second, I'll cut you some slack since you ended your post with a "U"
  16. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    It could happen not because of the problem of independence but because people think it will and that matters. You can pretend it doesn't but your living in a fool's paradise if you really think it will be as easy and "magically" as Vieques.

    The thread had a faulty premise from the start.
  17. BrodieQPR

    BrodieQPR Member

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    No, it really didn't. You guys came in and turned what was a pretty basic hypothetical situation into a full on political discussion. This wasn't meant as a forum to advocate for statehood, independence or anything but what the status of the FPF in the event of a hypothetical win for statehood.
  18. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    To think that people would not get riled up and turn it political when it's such and impacting decision is part of what it's faulty argument (the other that the entering statehood is so clear cut). It always going to be political when in the balance is the political future of your nation. It's like somebody making a Quebec national team thread or something to that effect.
  19. BrodieQPR

    BrodieQPR Member

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    I'm on a moderator on the largest hockey forum on the internet and I can tell you we have "Quebec national team" threads all the time without being derailed because most people get the difference between fun hypotheticals and serious political debates.
  20. nirwin

    nirwin Member

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    I'm really not sure why you think Congress wouldn't admit Puerto Rico as a state. Just because they don't legally have to doesn't mean they wouldn't. I believe that no territory/republic/colony/whatever voting for statehood has ever been denied by Congress. I don't know why you think it would start with Puerto Rico, especially since a large number of people in both parties have said they're in favor of it. Other than that you personally don't want to become a state, but that's not gonna stop them from accepting if you guys vote for statehood.
  21. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    Well for example supposedly Hawaii voted 90% for Statehood. If statehood wins in Puerto Rico, it will definitely be very close and it's doubtful they would get more than 50% of the vote, which will mean that half of the people would be against statehood, which would be a totally different situation. And the rest of them will just not be passive on it especially since it's always been the statehood party to win one of the many referendums they always ask for (and lose all the time) and claim this one is the valid one.
  22. JJxvi

    JJxvi Member

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    There have been denials of statehood when requested for various reasons.

    Utah.

    Texas, which wasn't a US possession, and would have caused a sticky diplomatic situation with Mexico, etc.

    Various other western states due to slavery/civil war issues/and the general lawless nature of the territories, etc.

    Not sure if there are any that have ever asked that continue to be denied.
  23. nirwin

    nirwin Member

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    I will defer to your knowledge of Puerto Rican politics, which is no doubt vastly superior to mine. All I'm saying is that if Puerto Rico votes for statehood, gets all of that stuff you're talking about figured out, drafts up a state constitution and comes to the U.S. to apply for statehood, they're not getting rejected. Puertorricane seems to think otherwise.
  24. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Member+

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    That's because independence is so far behind in the voting preference that independists strategy is basically for the US to get tired of Puerto Rico and get rid of it and grant independence.
  25. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member

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    DC is having trouble becoming a state in part due to members of Congress not wanting it to happen since their electoral votes would help one party more then the other. I imagine Congress members may have an issue with Puerto Rico for the same reason.

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