Rebuilding Mode...

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by FullBack77, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. TheBiff

    TheBiff Member+

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    I hope next year our "diamonds in the rough" actually have a chance to earn a spot on the XI.
    Most frustrating part of the year for me was seeing players do really good but only see playing time when we had multiple injuries and suspensions.
    The starting XI should never be set in stone.


  2. 3.2's

    3.2's Member

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    watching almost all of the rsl games this year it seems like some of our biggest deficiencies have been attacking speed, lack of creativity, and willingness to take chances on goal.

    looking at the mls salaries, and not that any of these players are necessarily available or could be had by rsl, these are some players that stand out to me that could help out in these areas and have lower salaries attached to them if we could trade a higher priced veteran for. all of these guys offer either speed up front and/or on the wing, can go at defenders, are dangerous and willing to take a shot, a few of them are flexible for various positions, and a few seem under-utilized by their current team...

    miller bolanos - chivas ($48000)
    fabian castillo - fcd (56000)
    colin clark - houston (110000)
    sebastian letoux - nyrb (169000)
    omar cummings - colorado (96000)
  3. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I believe Castillo was purchased by Dallas for DP like money. That might effect how he moves around the league (if he does).

    As for Gil, is RSL expected to pay him the GenAd of $200k? I mean if RSL only offers him $50k does MLS still own his rights (and RSL)? If Arsenal offer him $2 million, does MLS/RSL have any choice or get anything out if?
  4. I_Believe_In_Kreis

    I_Believe_In_Kreis Member+

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    I'll try to answer these in the order they were asked:
    1. Yes. His contract amount is his contract amount. The only change is who is paying him. Unless his contract is renegotiated, that will be his pay in 2013.
    2. If Luis (more accurately, Luis' agent) accepts a lower offer, then yes. If not, then RSL has to decide whether to pay Luis' full contract amount or waive him. At that point he goes into the waiver...err, re-entry...draft and can be picked up by anyone. Whoever picks him up would then own his rights (and have to pay his salary or renegotiate with him).
    3. Depends on whether he is under contract. If he goes to Arsenal after his contract is up, he is a free transfer, though RSL would retain his rights if he ever comes back to MLS (this is what happened to Portland with Findley). If he goes to Arsenal while still under contract, the transfer fee would be negotiated between Arsenal and MLS/RSL. Assuming all sides are satisfied, the deal is completed and RSL/MLS get their money and Arsenal gets their player. RSL also retains his rights if he ever comes back. If all sides are not satisfied, the talks are called off and Luis would remain an RSL/MLS property.

    Hope that helps but I suspect I just complicated it for you.
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  5. ShaggyReAL

    ShaggyReAL Awesome is my middle name

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    RSL would have to share any transfer money with KC, right?
  6. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    IBIK thank you. Thats sorta where I was going, and that summed it up nicely.

    I believe that is true, it was one of the conditions to let him go to RSL when they won him in the lottery.
  7. goobx1

    goobx1 Member

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    Nat is the most underrated player on RSL if you ask me. He is the glue that keeps the back line together. Nat is a player like Andy that you keep around to continue the tradition of play and institutional continuity. I see Nat as MLS coaching material. He may not, but I do.
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  8. bordelais7

    bordelais7 Member

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    You've got to give consideration to how hard some of these players would be to replace. I think taking this into account increases the value of Beltran/Wingert -- the position generally hasn't been very deep in this league or on this team. They're kind of pricey, and you'll never confuse them with Maicon, but they are at least adequate defensively and offensively in Kreis' system. Think of all the other failed experiments at that position over the years -- many of whom we all thought would be great fits.

    Even though our midfielders might be considered "better" players, I think they're more easily replaced.
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  9. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

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    The thing that you have to consider though, is are they irreplaceable for the price they make? If you can shave off 30k or so without much drop in quality, then it's a solid deal IMO. It's all about getting some cheaper players that still have some upswing while getting rid of people that cost more and are either on, or about to decline.
  10. georg

    georg Member+

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    I would add Espindola,Paulo Jr, and Javi to the keep, but agree with the rest.
  11. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

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    Javi is currently paid too much though for how he's playing. PJ seems to be making some positive strides, but how long do you give him? I'm fine keeping Espy, but to be fair, he's a guy that you could probably replace and save some cash. Overall I like our forwards, we just need a better 3rd option, whether that's PJ stepping up, or someone we bring in.
  12. georg

    georg Member+

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    Espy just resigned so I am sure he will be back, Javi will have a big year next season call it a canyon view like hunch. Paulo is. To young to give up on just yet.
  13. Taragui

    Taragui Member+

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    Is it just me, or is it unfortunate that in English resign and re-sign are so similar and yet mean such vastly different things. My heart skipped a beat when I read the first sentence, then I read it over again and life was back to normal.
    Lizzie Bee repped this.
  14. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Member+

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    and seeing Jonny Steele play over them
    that was probably more irritating than anything. This guy who is a good USL player gets time over young talent like Velasquez because he plays defense slightly better? Come on, Kreis. Fortune doesn't favor the conservative tattoo covered Irish...
  15. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Member+

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    When we cut/moved Andy and Russell this past off-season we all felt we had adequate replacements to fill the void they offered. After the season has reached it's conclusion, I'd like to call bullshit on that assumption.

    While Wingert and Beltran are both better defenders than Russell, neither can whip in a ball like he can. We've lost so much of our attack without Russell on the wing because of this. Instead of getting balls whipped in by our outside back on a consistent basis, we're having to have Espy (one of the guys who should be in the box) whip the ball in. This spells disaster for Sabo. Honestly, it's a miracle he has as many header goals as he has this season. And it's also kind of depressing to think how much more he could have if he had better service and Espy in the box with him to distract/take away a defender or two.

    Andy was never replaced. We put blind faith in guys like Gil, Grabs, Johnson, and newly signed players to fill the void of a guy that had velcro for feet and incredible vision. Why did we think that Gil, who couldn't jump an aging slow Andy, would suddenly be so much better? Why did we think Grabs and Johnson would suddenly wake up? There was zero evidence to support these claims. And, much like the Sabo situation above, without Andy we've seen a drop in play, overall, from Javi. If teams tried to double up on Javi in years past, while Andy was on the pitch, they got punished by his vision and skill on the ball. This year, though, they can do that and not fear too much (unless we are playing @ LA, the one place Gil plays consistently). It's like when a baseball team loses their setup man while keeping their cleanup hitter. They all wonder why he had such a bad year but fail to realize that by having that solid 3rd hitter, the 4th guy got much better pitches.

    The point of this long winded post is that RSL can't afford to roll the dice again on "well, I think we already have the guys to replace these starters" again. If they haven't done so yet, I seriously doubt they'll suddenly have the talent to replace a guy like Javi.
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  16. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

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    Regardless of how you do it, it's still somewhat of a gamble even with a more proven guy. We thought Lefturo had a decent system to shine in, and it never happened. I think this last year was harder just because we were forced to replace guys like Russell and Williams with players we already had needing to step up, and super cheap replacements we had to hope would pan out. I think it's a slightly different situation if we do trade away some of the veterans in the offseason. We'd be opening up some cap space, and we'd be getting other players we want in return. Doesn't mean the players we pick will work out, but at least we'd have a lot more control on who we picked up instead of just grabbing whoever is cheapest because they fit under the limited cap space and hoping it works out.
  17. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

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    I think that the fact that we're overpaying them hints that those similar-quality players who make $30k less are probably harder to find that you're assuming.

    Serviceable outside backs in this league command a premium because of their relative scarcity.

    Wingert has the extra bonus of occasionally playing as a not too terrible center back. That also costs extra.
  18. 3.2's

    3.2's Member

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    looking around the league at some defenders that have talent or at least some promise, and make at least 30k under what wingert does - almost every one of them came from one of the drafts, and from this list all (except kimura) are 22 to 26 years old. and i think all are outside backs except maybe berry and hedges

    steven beitashour - sj ($44100)
    kosuke kimura - port (71466)
    raymon gaddis - phi (33750)
    chris tierney - ne (74791)
    seth sinovic - kc (66750)
    chance myers - kc (101600)
    corey ashe - hou (94500)
    chris korb - dc (44100)
    matt hedges - dal (59000)
    chris klute - colo (33750) - on loan from usl
    josh williams - cbus (44100) - invited to tryout
    austin berry - chic (59000)

    but im guessing its hard to get a young talented player who doesnt make much salary away from one of these teams.
  19. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

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    Didn't Seth Sinovic trial with us earlier this year?
  20. ShaggyReAL

    ShaggyReAL Awesome is my middle name

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    He played for NE in 2010 and was signed by KC in 2011 and signed a new contract with KC in Jan of 2012. He did trial for RSL in 2011.
  21. 3.2's

    3.2's Member

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    well, maybe we missed on him, or maybe he wanted to go somewhere he had a better chance to start right away? i dont know. but he has started 50 games for skc in the last 2 years and has looked good defending and attacking up the sideline in the few skc games i've seen this year, very similar to what the wing defenders are asked to do here
  22. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    RSL said he was great, but that his skills didn't fit Kreis' system well. I believed this, at the time, to mean that he was terrible going forward, but I could be wrong.

    Also, I don't know if it was in this thread or not, but there was talk of Javi's contract. I think it is standard to have a 4-year contract with the first 2 years guaranteed and the final two being options the team can exercise (which usually means a big jump in salary over the initial 2-year period). Javi signed in 2009, the year when Becks took him out in the MLS Cup Final. That would put the end of this 2012 season as the end of that 4-year term, if that is indeed what took place.
  23. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

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    I wasn't meaning just outside backs, but throughout the starters. I would think you could find a Johnson or Grabavoy type player for less money. If we don't keep Javi for some reason, we could find a promising AM for less. Getting rid of one of Olave/Borchers and starting Schuler in their place means we can look for a 4th string CM for less. There's plenty of options around, and some of it will happen. It was already talked about after the Vancouver game that with the guaranteed increases in salary, RSL simply can't afford to keep everyone come next year. The players traded will likely depend on what interest other teams have.

    Regardless of being forced to dump salary or not, it really is time to let a few guys go to make way for some younger guys.
  24. Lizzie Bee

    Lizzie Bee Member+

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    I was talking to this guy's agent today:



    He wants a movie out of Egypt because the league is not running. He apparently used to play at Sheffield United from a quick Google search. However, given that he's international, a little older (28) and his salary range is probably slightly higher than anybody on this board would consider reasonable, it's not likely anything could come of it. A girl can dream. There is an entire league of players in Egypt that is wanting to get out and go anywhere they will actually be playing instead of waiting on politics.
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  25. georg

    georg Member+

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    Movie "out of Egypt" think this one has potential, could be a great soccer film;)
    Sabra and 15 to 32 repped this.

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