Reserve GK runs onto pitch to make save

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Scrabbleship, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Location:
    Canada


  2. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    That sucks.
  3. midmogooner

    midmogooner Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Please tell me what you would do card-wise here. I can see several options. The easy part is a yellow for entering the field with permission. But can you give a DOGSO-H red after that or do you just give 2nd Yellow for USB?
  4. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That is something I will never understand about an IFK where they defense has lined up on the goal line. There is no way you can get it into the goal without it hitting a defender, so why do you touch it to a teammate? Just step up, strike it hard, keep it low and there's a 50/50 shot of it getting through.
    It also looked like the ref only required a single foot to be on the goal line letting the defense get a head start by putting their other foot forward.

    Edit: Yellow for entering, and another for interfering?


  5. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    This is a send-off. Why would anyone think otherwise? This is one of the most reprehensible offenses in the game.
  6. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yep, Atlanta
    Yes. ATR 12.37 says:
    Denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball would apply to any player (or substitute) other than the goalkeeper in his or her own penalty area who handles a ball to prevent it from entering the goal, even if the ball was last played by a member of the defending team.

    But what if he had kicked or headed it away instead of handling it?
  7. Paper.St.Soap.Co

    Paper.St.Soap.Co Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Errol V is right. I think we've discussed this more than once before. I would select DOGSO-F, since it's not technically handling (I'm going for the prevents a goal by any offense that results in a free kick). As stated before, I don't care what the report says as long as we get the correct decision on the pitch which is a red card. If you want to go the route of two yellows, okay, I just don't think it needs to be that complicated.
    MrPerfectNot and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  8. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Tell me what the restart is and you have answered your own question.
  9. Welpe

    Welpe New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Country:
    United States
    I'm presuming there's no way to award a goal here? Who do you send off, the substitute?
  10. Paper.St.Soap.Co

    Paper.St.Soap.Co Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Nope, we have to deal with facts and the ball isn't in the back of the net.

    Yes, the substitute is sent off. Team does not play down. Full report to competition authority with details.
    Welpe repped this.
  11. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yep, Atlanta
    Yes of course, still an IFK, so DOGSO-F.
  12. OhRef

    OhRef Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    DOGSO-H restart IFK....ok students....next question.
    Substitute is sent off....How many players on the restart?
  13. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Country:
    United States
    Point of Law; the yellow if you are going to, mistakenly, give it would be for Unsporting Behavior not entering. Subs can only be yellow carded for Dissent, Delay of restart, and Unsporting Behavior.

    I would go DOGSO, send off and IFK. I don't think it matters whether they use their arms/hands or their body. You are still sending them. If not I hope you manage to make it off the field alive.

    If this is a player off the field with your permission then it matters what they use to stop the ball but I don't want to muddy the waters here with a new discussion. Please see the ATR.
  14. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yep, Atlanta
    However many there were before that sub wandered onto the pitch.
  15. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Obviously the victimized team here is being dealt a cruel blow. not only did they not get the goal but they still have to play against all 11 players so a red card does them no good.

    Questions:
    1. is there a way the ref can forfeit the match in their favor (invasion of pitch for instance).
    2. why cant there be a penalty? hand ball inside the box by a player who is not the GK?
  16. aaronriley

    aaronriley Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Location:
    North Carolina
    1) The decision to who the victory goes to in the event of a forfeit is not at the discretion of the referee.
    2) As far as I know(correct me if I'm wrong please) he isn't technically a "player" but a substitute who interferes with play and the restart with that is an IDK.
  17. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yep, Atlanta
    A good example of why letting anyone, but most particularly subs, loiter around the goal during play is a practice to be frowned upon.
    dadman, MassachusettsRef and MOREFFIN repped this.
  18. Welpe

    Welpe New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Country:
    United States
    Thank you for entertaining my elementary questions, it is appreciated!
    dadman repped this.
  19. campbed

    campbed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    11 - 0 = 11*

    *-unless you live in certain areas where the answer is your opinion and viewpoint based on your life journey so far, and it doesn't make you feel too bad about yourself if you had a different answer, else who are we really to tell you you are wrong.
  20. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Location:
    Beaverton OR
    This is NOT a foul. "The following conditions must be met for an offence to be considered a foul:
    It must be commited by a player
    It must occur on the field of play
    It must occur while the ball is in play.

    This situation does not meet the first requirement.

    "A player, substitute or substitued player is sent off if he comits anhy of the following seven offenses:
    ...
    denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area.)"

    "An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if, in the opinion of the referee, a player...commits any other offense, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player."

    This sort of thing does not happen if you prevent substitutes from warming up behind the goal.
  21. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    In light of Mr Riley's response to my direct questions and the other comments by other posters, am i the only one seeing a problem here?
  22. JimEWrld

    JimEWrld Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That it sucks to be the team hard-done by this? Yes. This is one of the unfortunate side effects of the laws. If the referee prevents the subs warming up behind the goal, we aren't having this discussion. Law5 beat me to what I was going to post. Not a player, so he can't commit a foul, only misconduct. Restart for misconduct without a foul is IFK.
    dadman repped this.
  23. iron81

    iron81 Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It was straight red, you can see it in his hand while he was being swarmed. You can also see him displaying the card just before the incident replay, though by that point the video quality doesn't allow one to discern color.
  24. campbed

    campbed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Yea, back to the LOTG says only PLAYERS can commit a foul, but...
    ATR (in the USA) says in this one case, a SUBSTITUTE can commit a foul.

    Whatever...
    " The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything is...42." So it makes sense.
    elonpuckhog and JimEWrld repped this.
  25. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yes but the punishment should not only be a way to make the victim whole (as best as possible) but also to deter the behaviour. If that is the law, I am telling my substitutes to run on the field yelling like a banshee on specific situations - as we saw in the video, on potential breakaways etc. just run on the field, what is the worse that could happen? (sarcasm)

Share This Page