Reserve league integrating with USLPro

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by PhillyMLS, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Maybe I was lucky. Never interacted with a rookie that gave me shit or gave me an attitude. Never ran into one that thought their shit didn't stink.

    I'm also extremely likable in real life (hard to believe, I know), so maybe that helps.

    I'm sure there are a handful out there. But a couple people in this thread are categorizing all of these kids as prima donas like we see in the NFL and NBA.

    I personally haven't seen it. Hell, most of the rookies I ever interacted with were surprised that any member of the media even wanted to talk to them.


  2. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I covered MLS Cup in Freddy's rookie season and got a chance to talk with him for awhile before the game. He had a very genuine smile on his face and was acting like the whole MLS Cup experience was simply surreal.He was definitely trying to soak everything in.

    My impressions were that this was a very talented kid who LOVED playing the game.

    I was lucky enough to get a 1 on 1 interview with Jozy Altidore his rookie year. I was shocked at how mature and humble he was.

    Maybe I was extremely lucky. Maybe I just caught these guys on really good days.

    I've also been out of the field for a few years now, so maybe as the league's profile has grown, rookies have entered the league with a bit more cockiness. I don't know. Just saying that my experience with rookies tended towards the "Why do you want to talk to me? I'm a nobody." That's even guys who were rookie of the year candidates and guys who got extensive playing time right out of the gate.
  3. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    Joined:
    May 31, 2000
    Location:
    Vienna, VA
    It's even worse for non-college graduates.
    blacksun repped this.
  4. Jahinho_Guerro

    Jahinho_Guerro Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Canada
    I think there would need to be an increase in the MLS rosters.
    (based of this link: http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations)

    The changes I would make to the Roster Rules is:

    A Major League Soccer club’s first team roster is comprised of up to 30 players, and 10 specified reserve (U-23) players. All 40 players are eligible for selection to each 18-player game-day squad during the regular season and playoffs.

    Salary & Budget
    Players occupying roster spots 1-24 will earn at least $44,000 in 2013.(did not include the yearly % increase)
    Players occupying roster spots 25-30 will earn at least $33,750 in 2013. (did not include the yearly % increase)
    Players occupying roster spots 31-40 will earn at least $15,000 in 2013.

    Age Designations:
    Any player making $33,750 must be under the age 25 (does not turn 25 or older in 2013).
    Any player making $15,000 must be under the age of 23 (does not turn 24 in 2013).





    (B) TRANSFERS AND LOANS
    An MLS player may be transferred or loaned at any time to a team outside the League (subject to that team’s Federation’s transfer window), subject to the consent of the player.

    An MLS player that is loaned to either the NASL or the USLPro must be on an either short term loan (3 months) or a season loan.
    -Players who are loaned out for the season do not count towards the overall roster.


  5. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Location:
    SE PA
    No doubt. But if you can get 30-40k a year and still take classes on the side, I think that sure as heck beats a partial scholarship and possibly no soccer or real job after 4 years. There will obviously be kids that go to school four years and have options in both soccer and the real job market. Of course you also have some kids that are not the sharpest tool in the shed and the college degree won't help much anyway.
  6. SweetOwnGoal

    SweetOwnGoal Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    16.3k from BMO Field
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Does United's academy make allowances to protect their player's college eligibility?

    Missed that.

    You're actually underlining my point. Big European academies are in the business of producing professional players. Yes, few go on to play for the big clubs that trained them, but many play pro somewhere (Richard Eckersley of TFC is an example from MLS that as trained at United). A club like United invests in their development with an eye to either playing them on first team (ideally), or selling then off to a lower side. That economy is what drives the sport.

    It's even more pronounced in South America.

    Akron isn't paying a transfer fee to the Columbus Crew academy. Until the MLS academies get this 'have to protect the player's college eligibility' out of their head the game will be stagnated in North America. That's not a bash on the NCAA, which is a perfectly good place for late bloomers to bloom and not quite-ers to have a final few years of competitive soccer, but it is a reflection on reality -- a reality I think MLS is starting to understand.
  7. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Way to categorize NFL and NBA rookies.:rolleyes:
  8. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    As Cory Gibbs once said, "Just because there are no scholarships doesn't mean there are any expenses".

    OK, there's always going to be a sliding scale of guys getting free rides to UCLA and those on half-rides at Cal State Fullerton ... but you don't want the Cal State guys anyway and, if the choice is between UCLA and riding smelly, stinky buses from Rochester to Harrisburg, 110% of the kids will take Westwood.

    Eh, make it 115%.
  9. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Touche.

    Although I will say that it is a much bigger problem in those leagues than it is in MLS. MUCH.
  10. 562nation

    562nation Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Location:
    (562)areacode LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    They could always bring up a PDL team that is in the same region. If a USL pro team isn't available
    If USl pro is going regional then it wouldn't be much different than what PDL teams are currently traveling

    In LA's instance Chivas could claim the Ventura County Fusion they already do their preseason up there
  11. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Even for sfs' standards, this one is precious. Remind us where Zardes went to school?
  12. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    I have Westwood high standards.

    There'll always be small school guys seeping through the cracks but the cream of the crop will gravitate to the "premier institutions of higher learning".

    BTW, how were Zardes' grades?
  13. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma
    Depends on the team I guess. What about an LA Galaxy reserve team that passed circles around Puerto Rico in CCL group play? http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2012/08/ccl-recap-galaxy-make-easy-work-puerto-rico I watched that game, was very impressed by how they played.
    Or Winning 3-2 against Isidro Metapan down in El Salvador? http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2012/10/ccl-recap-mcbean-stephens-power-la-wild-3-2-win

    If they are traveling with the team, they do actually get some of that. Being AROUND players who have learned how to excel in those situations can help teach them how to manage it as well (MLS starters are typically better than USL Pro players correct?). And MLS teams are increasingly growing the number of staff members they have. Including medical personnel. Heck, the Sounders found out what was wrong with Ljungberg where West Ham United couldn't figure out what was going on with his recurring hamstring issues. MLS teams are going to have greater resources to help teach these young players about proper nutrition and how to manage their bodies than lower division teams will.

    Which is why starting to combine MLS resources with the lower division teams is what is key here.

    Which College teams? Not all College teams are equal and neither are all Professional teams equal. I would argue the best College programs/teams are near the level of USSF 2nd/3rd division. Plus, you are looking at College teams in their Spring season. Which is seen as a time for development rather than for getting results. I don't know how serious those teams are during their Spring seasons. Which is also a knock against the College System btw. It is largely up to the players to push themselves to get better. Yes, you can improve your game on your own or without coaches if you have the motivation and drive to work on it in your own time. The better College programs are going to have instilled a culture within their teams that players work on their own and with their team mates to improve even in their off seasons without direct supervision from their coaches.

    Sounders don't care JUST about soccer development, I assume other teams are the same way btw, but they also care about the development of the individual. They want to develop these young men into individuals who will go on in life to represent the team and themselves well regardless of whether its on the soccer field or off of it.

    So explain to me how this is a fact? If it was a fact you could prove it, correct? So now you are going to prove to me that you can time travel?

    Do you really think Pro Soccer players spend 24 hours a day focusing on Soccer? I hear about Pros earning their college degree frequently enough. I read about the various charities they are involved in and the lives outside of Soccer that they live. Is all that detracting from their Soccer careers? Does the NCAA have limits on player development? Yes. they limit the amount of time players can spend in official practices. But it doesn't limit the time a player can spend on their own or with team mates on improving their abilities (do you think College Basketball or Football players only train and work on their game during official practices?). They will have learned enough during their practices with their coaches to know how the team plays and what drills to work on. They will know what drills to use to improve their technical deficiencies. They have a multitude of resources to study the game from a tactical standpoint. Whether that's watching games, reading books or researching training and tactics of some of the best systems in the world. If my Select coach in the mid 90's could research and begin teaching us Ajax's system then I am sure some college students could spend some time teaching themselves some tactical nuances of the game.

    Or, a USL Pro Player wakes up and goes to practice for maybe 5 hours a day. They go home and stress out about not making enough money. Or maybe they coach on the side to earn extra money or go to some other job. Maybe they have a significant other that takes up quite a bit of their time. Maybe they play some Call of Duty for a couple hours. Maybe they go out and socialize with friends. Again, they don't spend 24 hours a day drinking, eating, shitting and sleeping Soccer. They have lives and other interests outside of Soccer. They actually try to NOT think about Soccer otherwise they start burning out if that is ALL they think about. Some even take College classes.

    I like this move to having reserve teams play in a lower division. But a lot of what you said is trash.
    Ismitje repped this.
  14. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma
    And how many youth wash out of academies/youth systems around the world and never make a career for themselves playing professionally?
  15. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    You do a good job of explaining your point but its only half of the equation. In 2012 MLS has no market to sell players to each other, so to make the statement that MLS academies should only be developing players for their first team and not college players ignore the present day realities of US soccer. It also ignores the fact that the majority of youth players get cut to either never play the game again or play the game at lower 1st, 2nd, and 3rd division clubs who never got sold for anything. So for the forseeable decades MLS teams will try their best to develop as many top players, try to convince some to sign with them, lose many to foreign academies like alot of world academies do, choose to not sign players who ultimately play with other pro teams, and have players choose to play college soccer. To make a bold statement what MLS academies should do in a perfect world is nice but belies any understanding or suggestions of how ultimately to get there.
    Its like yelling at your kid to never make mistakes, you can demand all your want but the realities are kids will always make mistakes no matter what you want or say.
    When Saturday Comes repped this.
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Location:
    Outside of Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    For what it's worth the GA players that the Union have on their roster all take college classes and are working towards their degrees. Not sure how other clubs handle this, but John Hackworth stated at a STH forum that the club oversees this for both the GA players, and the Home Grown Players on the Club's roster.
    Ismitje repped this.
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    phillypride repped this.
  18. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    Tacoma
    Can USL Pro teams have players that receive no money beyond what is reasonable for food and travel expenses etc or whatever it is that keeps them NCAA eligible? If so then academy players could potentially play on these teams and not lose NCAA eligibility. I know MLS has a minimum Salary and thus it wouldn't work within MLS directly.
  19. SweetOwnGoal

    SweetOwnGoal Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    16.3k from BMO Field
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing for.

    My point is this: MLS academies need to do all they can to produce professional soccer players. The vast majority won't make it. That's irrelevant. It does't change the core philosophy.

    I'm not arguing for the elimination of college soccer. I'm suggesting that this move is evidence that MLS is moving away from the NCAA as its primary development league for 18-22 year-olds.

    Good. There is clear evidence college soccer, with training limitations and bastardized rules, is far less than ideal...(and please spare me with outlier examples of NCAA players that turned out well. A blind squirrel gets the odd nut too....)
  20. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Location:
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    United States
    Imagine for a second that all MLS clubs had a USL affliate. Can anyone who follows the USL give some realistic examples of clubs that would be good candidates for being promoted from the PDL to USLpro? I don't know much of anything about most of the clubs on that level and which you could project to be sustainable and have adequate facilities.
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    http://pdl.uslsoccer.com/teamdirectory/index_E.html
  22. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Location:
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    United States
    Yeah that doesn't really help, I know some of the teams. Cincinnati Kings may be a good partner for the Crew for obvious reasons, but beyond the fact they both play in Ohio, I have no information to whether this is actually a good partner. Which is why I asked the opinion of people who actually follow the league.
  23. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I guess we agree then. The confusion lies in this statement in your post. I think I took it to mean something you didn't intend or didn't clarify.
    'The MLS academies should not really be in the business of producing college stars. They should be creating pro players, period.'
    My only point is that it is and will always be the primary business to develop pro players but in that process a logical expected outcome of that same business is that many college players will be produced too. An expected, logical and necessary secondary business of MLS academy development is the fact it also develops college players
  24. Gutika113

    Gutika113 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Fresno Fuego (CA) are a highly successful team in the Southwest division of the PDL. Average about 6,000 fans a game, in a city of 700,000, and the organization is very professional.

    My last season with them before I was called into San Jose (eventually being let go and signed in USL Pro) we went undefeated in regular season, which is very had to do in the South West (because of the density of top division 1 colleges in southern california). Coaching staff is very good and knowledgeable, medical staff is very good for PDL, and the team is connected to the minor league baseball team, so there is plenty of money flowing through the club.

    ---

    Ventura County Fusion (CA) has a very strong past of sending players on professionally. Whether this has to do with the fact that these players play in the big D1's in SoCalifornia, or because Ventura CF good at what they do, is unknown to me, but they get more than decent fan attendance, so I could see them being a very good call up to USLPro.

    ---

    Carolina Dynamo (NC): I played last season with a couple of guys who went through there, and talked about their 18 man roster for game day and how every single one of them is either in MLS or one of the lower leagues. They are well supported in the community getting around a thousand at every game and playing in a very small soccer specific stadium.

    ---

    Kitsap Pumas (WA) who beat us in the western conference final (In Fresno mind you :\), are very well supported by their community up north, and are a PDL pro team, which pays all of its players. I'm more than sure that they have considered the move up, and can assume they have not because the travel expenses would be too large, compared to the regional north west division they play in currently.

    Can't think of any more, besides maybe El Paso who have a very good team in a little soccer specific stadium in Texas. They used to be affiliated with CD Chivas Guadalajara but they no longer are.
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Country:
    United States
    I can tell you that Real Colorado would not be a good team to partner with the Rapids, despite them both being in the Denver metro area. Real Colorado is one of 3 competing USADA clubs in the Denver metro area, along with Colorado Rush and the Rapids Academy, which has to make Denver the most competitive area for USADA clubs (other metro areas like LA have more USADA clubs, but also much greater population to recruit from). With no USL or other PDL club in the area the Rapids would likely have to start their own USL team or send their players to someplace like Phoenix.
    SoCalYid repped this.

Share This Page